Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

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Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby Brian » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:35 am

I get this question often, spring and shocks....or Coilovers... for aggressively driven NC. Customer today actually termed it suspension for 'mountain road ripper' NC?

So much depends on what you want to do with the car...and how serious you want the handling?

My wife's 2012 has just our Progress Springs and Sways and every time I get out of that car I tell my wife that her car "is a blast to drive!". It is much more flat in the twisty bits than stock and I find myself driving it like a total hooligan through curves and freeway ramps at 9/10ths. Yet if I took her car to an autocross event and push it to 10/10ths it would prove faster than stock....and then fall on its face compared to my 2006 with Ohlins. Once you reach 10/10ths her car would not be near as much fun because it is just not setup to be pushed that hard, doesn't have enough damping, enough spring rate, etc. The description of "mountain road ripper" makes it sound like you want to push it and would appreciate a set of coilovers. In that regard the Ohlins are a complete revolution of the suspension but also more suspension than 90% of owners will ever use. Lots of intermediate steps like the TEIN coilovers, we have a few street customers on these new TEIN STREET FLEX and they tell that me they love the new setup.

Image

One advantage of the real coilovers is shorter shock bodies. If you want to lower the car significantly then you start to give up enough travel that you spend a lot of time on the bumpstops. At lower heights (particularly around 13 inches and below), the coilovers will give you more travel before you hit the stops...and the higher spring rates actually give BETTER ride because you don't get to the stops near as quick.
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby czarnecki » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:14 pm

Brian, I liked your comparison of the difference in autocrossing with both a spring and sway upgrade to the standard Ohlins coilovers. I currently have the standard Ohlins, and I am considering revalving and respringing them to the full race version specs. How would you describe the difference in autocrossing the standard Ohlins to the full race versions?

Also, do you have a parts list of what I need for the upgrade? Is it just the Swift springs?
08 PRHT GT Copper Red 6MT/BEGI 2560 Turbo Kit by Moto-East/EcuTek/AEM Meth Inj/Ohlins Coils/245 Dunlop Z2s/9" Gold RPF1s/FM Sways/GWR Midpipe & Q
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby Brian » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:23 am

Assuming your local autocross surface is pretty smooth then you will find more speed with the stiffer setup, the car reacts faster, less lean, less dive, etc. The downside is more firm ride in the real world where the surface is not always very smooth at all. If the autocross surface you regularly use is not smooth, then I can't say there would be much gain. Our surface here in San Diego has slowly gone rough over the years such that we have retreated from the most stiff springs.

You need just the revalve, the swift springs...and our delrin adapters for the rear. You will also need longer bolt for the rear and spacer for the bottom connection (you are moving from high clearance spring to narrow race spring and need to reduce arc of travel by spacing out bottom shock connection about 3/8 inch).
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby morrisg » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:59 pm

Allow me to post an alternative view. My Ohlins came with the 7k/4k spring setup and did well at 2011 Solo Nationals but was definitely off the pace of the top runners. In 2012 I upgraded the springs to Swift 9k in front and Tein tapered 7k springs in back. The Tein tapered springs have the same shape as the stock springs so no delrin adapters are needed. I installed these without revalving the Ohlins. At 2012 Solo Nationals, my hot shoe co-driver set fast time in class on the West course with this setup. So this can be a nationally competitive setup without having to revalve your Ohlins, which gives you the option of going back to the 7k/4k more comfortable street version if you desire.

Would the stiffer springs be even faster? Could be, depends on the driver's style and the surface of the autox course. You are free to go that route. Just wanted to let you know there is an alternative that is less expensive than the full on race valved Ohlins that is a very competitive setup.
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby Brian » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:10 pm

Wow, fantastic results, thanks for sharing. Which sways/wheels/tires?
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby morrisg » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:24 pm

Sways: Front Racing Beat adjustable, set to middle. Rear Eibach 16mm solid set to soft.
Wheels: Enkei RPF1 17x9 45et
Tires: 245/40 x 17 Toyo R1R
Full fender lip roll and cut back fender liners
OS Giken diff
PPE long tube header + mid pipe plus GWR oxygen sensor extensions
GWR Race Single muffler
AEM CAI modified to stay STR legal (above the plastic separator on the internal bumper)
Moto East tune

A different hot shoe driver won the 2013 Packwood National Tour STR class on BFG Rivals in the car. Sorry, no 2013 Solo Nationals results, couldn't make the trip this year.
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby czarnecki » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am

Thanks for the info morrisg. I think I might try your setup for next season. Brian, I see you have the 5K Tein springs for sale, but can you get the 7K for the rear?
08 PRHT GT Copper Red 6MT/BEGI 2560 Turbo Kit by Moto-East/EcuTek/AEM Meth Inj/Ohlins Coils/245 Dunlop Z2s/9" Gold RPF1s/FM Sways/GWR Midpipe & Q
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby Brian » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:46 am

TEIN had 6k and 5k last I spoke to them.

We could do 7k in Swift and you would need our Delrin converters to make it work.
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby JeremyJ069 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:20 pm

so im back at researching a track worthy suspension for my mx5.
what would you recommend for someone who comes out of corners looking like this?
Image
3 - Green - Turn 9 (1055am) - NIC_9211-Sep14-13 by jeremy!, on Flickr
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby Brian » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Wow, that does need some help. What suspension mods so far?

And what is on there for wheels and tires?
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby Va MX5 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:20 pm

Hi Jeremy,

Not much to go on with just one photo. However, it appears you are approaching the apex cone for the corner, as such you are not yet exiting the corner. The back of the car is totaly unweighted and you still have a lot of steering dialed in, not unwinding or weighting the back of the car as would be the case during corner track out. So I would recommend you start your threshold braking at an earlier point leading up to corner turn in, which should be coupled with a later turn in point with slight trail braking, this will allow a lot of rotation of the car quickly and you can start to dial in unwind sooner with a transition to throttle before reaching apex. In a small car in a trun like the one in the photo, you want to power into and through the apex to achive maximum corner exit speed with the result being to achive the highest possible terminal speed at the end of the upcoming straightaway. In the photo it looks like corner entry was just to hot and a lot of corrrection is underway to make apex, remember "Slow in, Fast out". I am always trying to invest more in driver mods, which give me a higher return, than any to date I have made in my car. There are 2 must reads for anyone who wants to spend a lot of time running road courses; "Going Faster!" by Carl Lopez and "Ultimate Speed Secrets- the Complete Guide to High Performance and Race Driving" by Ross Bentley, both can be found on Amazon. Good luck with your future tracking experiences, you are enjoying some of the fun your car was made to provide!

Regards, Pat
Pat- Va MX5
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby JeremyJ069 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:29 am

suspension:
stock sport trim level, so... nothing! :P
wheels / tires:
rpf1 of course, it is a NC after all. 17*8 running 235 dunlop direzza zII.

i admit the last post was light on information. this was at auto club speedway, turn #8 which is more or less a 180*
Image
this was my last session so i was playing with the car a lot but you can see the lead up to the photo in the link below.
https://vimeo.com/75156584#t=123

its either that url time or at 4.22, honestly dont really know. but both times the corner was taken the same way.
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby JeremyJ069 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:30 am

ok, so i have been thinking this over for a while now. originally i was considering FCM coilovers, but someone had sold me on dropping them out of consideration. so that leaves me with ohlin, ohlin race, and mx5 cup.

previously i was using the commuter car excuse for thinking about ohlin vanilla. i have a new commuter so the go-kart is going full track / leisure. so that leaves ohlin race or mx5 cup. i know brian hates the mx5 cup suspension. maybe hate is too strong? i know brian does not like how heavy they are. i can get them for a little bit more than the ohlin race kit and they would be the sachs version, not the eibach.

from watching the mx5 cup videos the suspension looks very capable. interested to hear from people that had them, and since replaced them.
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby Brian » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:45 am

I tried the SACHS. I don't hate them, I just was not impressed. Once I changed to the Ohlins I can't imagine going back to the SACHS. Assuming the car is going to live and be used in the real world of pot holes and old roads (not just a trailer queen living purely on race tracks), then my suggestion is standard Ohlins kit, nothing 'vanilla' about it.
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Re: Springs and Sways for 'Mountain Ripper NC" or Coilovers?

Postby JeremyJ069 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:56 am

ha! vanilla was just a term of differentiation, not an attempt at being derogatory.

my only worry about the non-race ohlin is the possibility of really becoming a track only toy. but yes, roads here in los angeles are a joke at best. if im driving to an event with the full on race spec stuff it might be not ideal.

question though, are you suggesting the non-race ohlin for ride comfort or mechanical safety. because im very good at ignoring the former.
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