Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

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Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:32 pm

Hey Brian/All - I live in Australia and own a 2011 nc special edition which has a bilstein tuned suspension as mentioned here http://www.caradvice.com.au/103344/2011 ... australia/
Unsure what bilstein tuned means, but i guess it means i have some oem bilstein shocks, dunno how to identify the same though :roll:

I think my car is very similar to Brian's 2012 street project car and so I was looking at following the mods done to the same.
I've just got the super-q from Chris at mx5parts and its really good - I chose to remove the silencing baffles and the muffler has a decent growl (10% more than stock) when accelerating and yet no drone at cruising speed (2700rpm). Overall quite pleased with the minor (perhaps perceived :D ) grunt it adds
I'm not looking at headers yet as they are not street legal here in Melbourne, but will the gwr mid pipe when added to my stock header and super-q combo improve things on my car (performance gains? or just a better note?)

Also I keep travelling to San Jose every few months and so was wondering if anyone here can comment on the dimensions and weight of progress rear/front sway combo package as well as progress springs to see if I can carry it back with me on the long flight back to Australia. Also is it recommended to get the end links to go with sways or are stock end links good enough?

Lastly if I get the progress springs, do I need anything else like bump stops, etc. to go with them or are the stock ones ok? Note I'm on stock 17x7 rims running the 205/45 tires for now, but may go up to 215/45 on either stock rims or 17x8(or 7.5).

Thanks for the guidance, hope I can carry some stuff back from US and looking forward to building my mx5 similar Brian's 2012 mx5 :mrgreen: !
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby Brian » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:20 am

The springs would be easy to re-pack in your luggage....but the sways box is about 5 feet long, figure you might get a charge for oversize luggage (similar to taking Skis or Snowboard on a trip).

My wife's car uses those springs on stock stops, but if your mileage is over 20k then perhaps those are ready to be replaced too, they eventually get beat to pieces. Stock endlinks okay for street use, upgrade them if track or autocross use is planned.
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:11 pm

Thanks Brian! Springs are on my shopping list for next US trip in May then :)
Sway bar box (is that front n rear combo) at 5 feet seems like a big item - any idea on how heavy they are? Maybe if I pulled them out of the box, the dimensions are smaller? Are the whitelines similar in performance to progress sways?
On the bump stops, I'm at 50k kms (so more than 20k miles), which bump stops do you recommend, given my shocks are stock and springs will be progress?
Will stick to stock end-links when I go for sways, as mine is a daily driver with a rare once in a year track day.
Also any thoughts on the gwr mid pipe + super-q + stock headers combo, have you seen that a lot, does it sound or perform better, will I have to put the baffles back in :P since the mid-pipe is available locally from mx5parts, I'm contemplating buying when the next shipment arrives :D
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby Brian » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:25 pm

The midpipe helps a bit on torque, but the BIG gains are with the header change.

Sways not heavy, just long. Perhaps 15 pounds with the bushings and brackets. The Whiteline are smaller bars, not as much rate, but still much better than stock.
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:47 pm

Thanks Brian! And for the bump stops needed for stock shocks and progress springs? I see quite a few bump stops in your shocks section? Which ones should I get? FCM 36/58 sport or FCM 58/76 comfort or FCM 58/58 sport Or something else? I'm guessing they need to be matched to my application and will need to be changed if I change shocks, etc.
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby Brian » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:42 pm

See the long bumpstop discussions at Miata.net forum for starters. The progress with stock shocks can be used with the longer FCM....or the shorter, depends on what you want to emphasize.
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:56 pm

^^ yes was just reading those discussions over last few hours :) fcm 36/58 for lowered mx5s, seems like a popular option, but will keep educating myself a bit more to understand whats best (especially given my mx5 is a daily driver and its just mostly me at 155lbs in it!)
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:35 pm

So after a lot of reading around - I'm still confused about bumpstops. As per the Fcm application guide Http://fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_app_gu ... #Bumpstops the 36/58mm are needed only if lowering beyond 0.5", however the progress springs on oem bilsteins won't go beyond 0.5". There are discussions on m.net for Koni+progress+Fcm 36/58 but nothing on just the progress springs. Also the Fcm application guide has no recommendation of 58/76 combo so I'm guessing that's just oem replacement. Which leaves me with 58/58 recommendation for non lowered comfort. So is that the way to go? :roll:
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby Brian » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:26 am

What the website actually says for those Progress springs is "initially lowered the project about half an inch"...and then it goes on to explain that further settling resulted in total lowering beyond that amount, more like 3/4 inch. But that's static height and I expect you want to drive the car and in driving the car you will be using the stops quick on full length stops. Whether that is bad or good, depends on what you are more concerned with performance...or comfort.
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:32 pm

So full length would give me more comfort as I would be riding them more often whereas for performance I would need the 36/58 lowered in which case I guess I'm after performance. I think I may have I answered myself? :P

Brian - given my daily driver status and having done 32000 miles, do you think my oem bilsteins have significant lifespan left to handle some time with progress springs or should I actively be making space in my check in baggage for some Koni shocks along with the progress springs? I keep reading from a cost point of view it's good to get it all done once but I quite like the idea of going one by one to get an experience of each suspension mod by itself :roll:

Also I'm reconsidering the header now. The rules here in Melbourne essentially say headers are legal as long as the cat con and O2 sensor positions don't change. So I'm thinking your ceramic street header maybe a good solution for me. How significant is the difference in performance compared to the ceramic max power?

Also since I have a few US trips this year considering if I can carry the header back :D Is it fair to assume the headers are around 15 pounds and around 1.5 feet x 1.5 feet in dimensions? Otherwise you do mention on the max power header description that you ship to Australia for 90$ but I'm guessing that's not the case anymore as you have mx5parts here?
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby Brian » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:51 pm

One of the OEM bilstein's on my wife's 2012 is leaking with just 22k miles and starting to making a clicking/knocking sound, figure we will be changing shocks on her car soon. Seen a lot of the OEM bilstein fail early, the aftermarket Bilstein units seem to be much better durability.

Note we don't ship to Australia, see Chris Gough at Targa Racing about sourcing one of our headers....or you can pick one up when here in the USA. Yes, header small enough you could easily pack it in your luggage. See the dyno graphs in the product descriptions for where the power difference is, you do get the most with the Max Power but the Street header still makes a big jump in torque from idle to redline.

Yes, for performance oriented driver the short FCM is my suggestion.
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:59 pm

Brian wrote:One of the OEM bilstein's on my wife's 2012 is leaking with just 22k miles and starting to making a clicking/knocking sound, figure we will be changing shocks on her car soon. Seen a lot of the OEM bilstein fail early, the aftermarket Bilstein units seem to be much better durability.

So which one are you going for on your wife's prht maybe that will be a hint for me as well :wink: I have read you 2012 prht thread end to end already :D Do the Koni's lower too much beyond what the progress springs do by themselves. Or do you think the aftermarket bilsteins (i see a few options) are best replacements for street use?

Brian wrote:Yes, header small enough you could easily pack it in your luggage. See the dyno graphs in the product descriptions for where the power difference is, you do get the most with the Max Power but the Street header still makes a big jump in torque from idle to redline.

great header on my shopping list as well :mrgreen: Will figure out max power vs street. I looked but in the product description for max power there are no dyno graphs, the street ones do have the dyno graphs though. Can you point me to max power dyno graphs?

Brian wrote:Yes, for performance oriented driver the short FCM is my suggestion.

thanks thats sorted then!
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby Brian » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:48 am

I just checked and the dyno graphs are still there in the product descriptions for the combos and discussed in detail....like this one, and this one, and this one....and again here. Those same graphs are also in various threads here in the forum, including the thread for my wife's car, 'the dyno thread', and the blog linked from the product descriptions. Note I also see in those product descriptions that we have a note about the Street header not fitting Australian Right Hand drive cars....because steering rod is in the way.

The bottom line on the header choice is more power with the Max Power setup...but also MUCH MORE SOUND than our 'Street' header, which might be good or not, depending on your tastes. Every time I drive my wife's car I am struck by how perfect it is, how the factory should have made it exactly like that, it's just enough extra fun without ever annoying that I sometimes think it is the best Miata that I have ever built....despite fact it will never win any races! My own Miatas usually slowly slip into more and more extreme states, faster and and faster...but also louder and more aggressive to the point that it might not be your first choice for a relaxing cruise, whereas I am always thrilled to take the wife's car for a Friday night event...hope that makes sense. With the Wife's car, it's all about more fun WITH moderation, and sometimes moderation is a good thing!

Wife has already told me she does not want more lowering, so no Koni for her which would lower at least another half inch, she really loves the height right where it is now. My first inclination is to use the Tokico on her car...though the Bilstein Sport might also work for her. It really is HER car and she makes the choices after I lay out the options, she is like the ultimate one-person focus group and I have really enjoyed watching her make the choices and sometimes reject the things we have tried on her car. Not sure she will bother to adjust the Tokico so I will ask her about that and suggest the Bilstein Sport if she is inclined to never adjust the shocks anyway. Similarly, I will also offer her the FCM comfort vs Sport and see which way she decides to go...more comfort or more sport?
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:20 pm

^^ Brian that moderation is exactly what I'm after! Mine is a daily driver and doubles up as first choice for my wife and I on weekend road trips. If it was very loud or fast or stiff then I can kiss it goodbye on weekend drives with my wife as she will prefer the less fun bmw suv then :P

Hence I like your super-q as it comes with baffles to reduce the sound if I go headers. I'm guessing go with your catted mid pipe first (from Chris at targa racing here as its too big to carry back from US) and yes pickup the max power header on one of my US trips. Thanks for the hint on the street header not fitting Aussie mx5!
Thanks for the links on the dyno graphs, I couldn't find them as I was looking at the headers product pages but not the combo exhaust pages!

Now for the suspension while I've heard great appraise on the forums for progress springs with koni or oem bilstein there is not much on progress springs with bilstein sport or hd shocks. In your experience do you see this combo a lot and hear good stuff about it? From your product descriptions the bilstein sports are 1/2 inch shorter, so does that mean they will lower the car a further 1/2 inch when combined with lowering from progress? I don't intend to adjust height (tokico) or go too low either and hence I'm not sure coil overs are needed for me. I'm just after the right level of moderation for fun as you described :)

I'm quite eagerly waiting for an update on your wife's 2012 prht thread to see which way she goes on suspension shocks choice and Bumpstops. As I'm sure the combination that goes on her car will be best for a fun road only car :mrgreen:
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Re: Progress spring and sways and gwr exhaust questions

Postby jassi » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:39 am

Brian - as serious as Ohlins dfv coil overs sound from a pricing point a view do you think they will make a fun road car? I've been thinking if it makes sense to save a bit and go all out vs spend slightly under half of what the Ohlins cost on springs n good shocks. Also are Ohlins by themselves enough or is it recommended to add front/rear sways (say progress), better end links and Fcm sport Bumpstops.
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