PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

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PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

Postby Brian » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:04 pm

What should me measure when we get access to an ND?

Just starting list I have...

Wheel weight
Wheel and tire clearance for 235/40 etc
Sway bar thicknesses.
Head clearance with helmet on
Hub size.
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby jboemler » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:11 am

Dyno runs and corner weights -- "trust but verify". 8)
Photos of the underside, suspension, etc.
Hook up an Ecutek or something and test whether you can read the tune.
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Chuck H » Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:03 am

This isn't exactly measurements, but I'd love to see good pictures of the underside with the car up on a lift, so you can really get a good idea about exhaust options and chassis bracing options.

I think the original post covered most of the other important stuff.
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Brian » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:20 am

Good ideas guys...and gives me the idea to get it on our scales here to see both total car weight verified on our race scales, plus get a chance to see starting corner weights with big driver like me (200 lbs).
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby monty11ez » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:13 am

Motion ratios.
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Brian » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:00 pm

FIRST DAY DIVING INTO ND WITH A WRENCH IS COMPLETE! Had lots of fun today...learned a ton...here is just a sample of ND bits we got to remove and install again. By the way..
Front sway bar change is going to be extra fun... it bends around the electric steering assist unit. Somebody at Mazda labeled the shocks as 'struts' but they are still shocks....and thankfully devoid on this generation of any brackets for ABS sending units, etc.
Attachments
ND-Bellyshot.jpg
ND-Bellyshot.jpg (496.82 KiB)
Wheel fitment.jpg
Wheel fitment.jpg (151.45 KiB)
ND-AIR.jpg
ND-AIR.jpg (103.01 KiB)
Shocks-ND.jpg
Shocks-ND.jpg (237.64 KiB)
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Traum » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:09 pm

Thank you for the update, Brain. And omg... look at them wimpy stock springs! But at least they should be an easy fix! :mrgreen:
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Brian » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:26 am

More pics for you guys.
Attachments
NC-engine.jpg
NC-engine.jpg (327.53 KiB)
ND-sway.jpg
ND-sway.jpg (289.25 KiB)
ND-Front-stop.jpg
ND-Front-stop.jpg (110.7 KiB)
ND-REAR-stop.jpg
ND-REAR-stop.jpg (112.13 KiB)
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Brian » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:38 am

Wheel and Tires Thoughts.

One thing that yesterday brought home to me was that ND is NOT an NC. The space is the wheel wells is more like NB and that means STR and CSP guys cannot assume they are going to get 245mm or 255mm tires in without fender flares. Even 235/40/17 was so tight it will require a custom offset to get right, which Emilio of 949 Racing is working on, both in 17x8 and 17x9.

ND-235mm.jpg
ND-235mm.jpg (297.19 KiB)


Emilio of 949 Racing below, checking here max travel touch points (shock installed with all hardware except the springs).
Attachments
Emilio-ND.jpg
Emilio-ND.jpg (262.15 KiB)
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Brian » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:42 am

Every day somebody asks about 15 inch on ND. Well, they really don't fit the brakes. Picture here shows the hands of Mazda's own Dave Coleman trying one of several 15 inch wheel combos and even in the rear they did not clear the brakes. Dave explained that stock rear calipers are now aluminum and therefore thicker. Dave postulated that if the calipers were still steel then some 15 inch combos might clear, but being aluminum the calipers are chunky enough to prevent the 15 inch wheels from fitting even in the rear.

Emilio did explain to me that with a massive spacer he was able to fit the 6UL in 15x9, but the spacer was so massive it would mean cutting the fenders and installing big fender flares to make it work, and he expressed the opinion that the effective offset was just too far from where it needs to be. Thus, effectively 15 inch wheels do not clear because they do not clear the chunky calipers.

YES, Emilio Cervantes is working on 949 Racing 17x8 and 17x9. They will require carefully calculated offsets because the space is very tight in the wheel wells. The entire experience yesterday brought home for me that the ND is not an NC, it's more like trying to stuff 235/40/17 into an NB.
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ND-15.jpg
ND-15.jpg (948.15 KiB)
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Chuck H » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:56 am

Thanks for the bellyshot pic! :)

Looks pretty interesting under there. Any chance you can get your calipers on the tailpipe after the cat so we know for sure what size piping they used? And even better would be if they let you take the heatshield off over the exhaust manifold and measure the exhaust primary diameter. That would answer a lot of hypothetical theories running around right now about why the engine is so torquey compared to the MZR.

Looks like some variant on your 6-piece brace kit would work very well with the new chassis as well.

And I'm sure it's just me, but for some reason, that muffler design bugs the crap out of me. :lol: That definitely has to go for something smaller and lighter (and louder, of course).
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Brian » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:04 pm

Just for you Chuck!

I know you are into the math on exhaust pipe sizing, tell me what you think here. The sprung connection that was formerly on the NC header outlet and is now moved downstream to muffler inlet means even more folks get the challenge of dealing with that on install since now even a muffler change means working with that sprung connection.
Attachments
Pipe-size-ND.jpg
Pipe-size-ND.jpg (110.52 KiB)
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby ronbauer » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:29 pm

Can't tell you how jealous I am that not only have you got to see and sit in an ND, but have now been able to do all this playing!

My car is scheduled to be built on 6/29. I'm anxious with anticipation! Hopefully Emilio has wheels available shortly after.

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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Brian » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:00 pm

My wife laughed at me last night after I came home and would not shut up and asked finally if I had fun on my 'little play date'

I laughed and replied that I did!
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Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Postby Chuck H » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:49 pm

Brian wrote:Just for you Chuck!

I know you are into the math on exhaust pipe sizing, tell me what you think here. The sprung connection that was formerly on the NC header outlet and is now moved downstream to muffler inlet means even more folks get the challenge of dealing with that on install since now even a muffler change means working with that sprung connection.


That's kind of an odd size. 2.1075" comes out to 53.5mm. I wasn't able to quickly find a source on-line for 53mm exhaust tubing, but there do seem to be a number of 52.5-53.5mm gaskets, flanges, etc., so it must not be too unusual a size for Japanese cars. Seems to be used on some Honda models as well.

That seems under-sized for the 2.0L model, as it just barely supports the factory hp rating. Assuming that it's 16 gauge tubing, it's going to be basically zero-restriction up to 161 hp, and gradually becomes more restrictive as power grows from there. I can all but guarantee that they make the jump to 60mm piping on the Cup cars, if they're going to have them tuned up closer to 200 hp.

You could probably get away with a nice 2-1/4" exhaust setup on this car, if keeping weight down is a priority, and still have a bit more tuning headroom than the factory exhaust. Of course, 2-1/2 would probably be easier, as there are more parts available, and you may even be able to re-use some of the components designed for the NC, like the mid-pipe resonator, and maybe even the Race and Street singles with slightly different piping on them.
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