PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

[Matth3w]

Ok I'll look around about ceramic coating around here. If not I'm sure it's good as is

[Brian]

Have long suspected we have torque limits in the factory ECU. The software/ECU challenge currently makes getting the tune completed a difficult job. Software will steadily get better...but today none of the software available has sufficient power yet, seen longtube customer results top out early with all three current tune options that I know of, and often that tune will back down over time as the very smart factory ECU will dumb the results back down, down, down. Mat arrived at the Dynojet today and his car topped out early, comparable to peak results posted at Miata.net thread by several with the longtube. He looked at the data and could see the ECU was fighting him, pulling timing, dumping fuel, etc. Changed to MazdaEdit and gained 10 hp instantly! But the MazdaEdit is also far from perfect, it takes much longer to load and ECU still yanked at least 5 degrees of timing from even our best run. Five degrees of timing can be easily over 10 more hp at the wheels, and my results of 180hp and more are with more timing on days the ECU did not fight us so hard. I see Shiv's own site currently has his header at 166 hp on Dynojet, smoothing set to 4, and "STD". Using same settings on same brand of dyno, Dynojet, we are 176 hp on the Longtube TODAY...an extra 10 hp....yet still missing 5 degrees of timing today compared to prior runs on my ND. Important to note Shiv is using dyno he owns, he controls the settings, while ALL our dyno runs are third part dynos we do not own or run, etc. Feeling vindicated today, which was a hot and tropical San Diego Summer morning. Give me another late winter cool dry day and more cooperative ECU and we would easily repeat same 180+ numbers we got back in May.

The Danger included with the low torque limits includes that some get their test results completely screwed up. Without proper tuning the long tube headers will hit torque limits before any shorty. Therefore early users of both headers end up with flipped results...they think shorty actually makes more power because they do not know what the Ecu is actually doing . What is actually happening is that the longtube makes so much more torque and so much earlier in the rpm band that it runs into the torque limit sooner...which causes ECU to pull timing and fuel earlier. Only with a lot of effort did Mat get the ECU past that behavior today...so the longtube could show it's real strength.

I have noted several times that it feels like the early NC days, and today again was like that. In early NC days we had our headers going to customers long before the software could consistently and reliably get the cars tuned. Took a lot of grief in the first two years of the NC until software got reasonably reliable at helping customers get same results we had posted early. Fortunately, have learned the ND, like the NC, will run the car just fine on stock tune and upgraded hardware...you just don't get all the extra juice of the hardware without the tune. Same problems, new decade and new generation of the car. I don't write software, I can keep making the best hardware in hopes the software makers will be motivated to get their stuff more complete. It happened with NC, it will happen with ND. It took a good 2 years with NC, I really hope the process does not take as long with ND.

[Brian]

Damping Force Comparison Chart.

Dyno sheet showing the rebound (top side) and compression (bottom side) and a number chart. It shows the OE 124 Tokicos, the standard model ND Tokicos (basically the same rebound but 124 compression is notably softer front and rear) as well as the OE ND Club Bilsteins (not Cup as marked, not to be confused with MX5 Cup racing shocks) and the KONI Sports adjusted to the full soft setting. The chart is in Newtons of force and Meters per second of piston speed. The general rule of thumb is that the KONI Sport’s maximum adjustment is about double the min setting pretty much across the piston speed range which means that it is quite wide and more than covers the front Club’s rebound force once adjuster into the range. You can also see that the front Club’s compression force is really extremely high which accounts for lots of harshness and the great disparity from the aggressive Club front valving to the not particularly aggressive Club rear. The KONI valving even at full soft is much more balanced end to end (identical in bump, different in rebound) with Sport rear higher in bump and rebound even at full soft vs. the Club rear.

[Brian]

ND Racer Andy Hollis did us the favor of sending his DYNO results for our RoadsterSport Super Street (single tip) muffler. Only change is muffler. He noted that Super Street muffler is as free flowing as no muffler at all with nice gains under the curve! Low line is stock muffler, high line is RoadsterSport Super Street. His dyno reads a lot lower than many, as always what matters in analysis of dyno results is before and after of same car on same dyno. Andy added: "BTW…LOVE the sound!"

[Brian]

Good day testing new ND Longtube Resonators at SCCA Autocross. Fun course, within sound limits, Top STR time...and top time of the morning. Working on Longtube updates all week and it is coming along nicely!

[Brian]

First Production Sample of SuperQ Twin Tip!

Video Samples Coming Soon!

[NathanD277]

Is the sound level/resonator issue the only problem with the long tube systems? Mine doesn't seem to have that issue, so I'm good if that's all that's going on.

[Brian]

Some systems got the correct resonator and some got a resonator that looks the same on the outside but has smaller perforation holes on the inside. That unit with smaller perforation holes in the core will last a few years longer, but it is noticeably louder. Result is that some are blowing local SCCA sound limits. Thus, indeed if yours is okay on volume for your use then everything else good to go.

[NathanD277]

Great. I'm almost done with the tuning process with Mat@OVTune now. Everything is feeling great! I'll have a before/after dyno to post for you guys.

[Brian]

Update...

The rush to get the longtube setups out to the fast guys before Nationals meant some details did not get finished to our satisfaction. After consulting the factory today, and after another month of testing through SCCA event this past weekend, we have decided to make a number of upgrades all designed to better seal the system. All units shipping after today will include these updates to better seal the entire setup start to finish. We are going to be offering all of the original dozen owners a free replacement to the newest spec system if they want it. While we are at it, and with the rush for Nationals now behind us, we are going to upgrade ALL the connections, including flange at the rear muffler connection and clamp in the middle of the midpipe. That's a bunch of updates all designed to guarantee complete sealing so owners get the sound level we got on original prototype installed on our ND here. Thus, anybody with sound issues on first edition will get a complete replacement if they want it, the only downside is having to do the install again. This will not happen overnight, production will start next week on the replacement kits and it will likely take at least a month to get those to original dozen owners.