ND STR Build

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ND STR Build

Postby HAZMAT » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:01 am

I'll be prepping for the 2016 Solo 2 season with a March purchase of a Soul Red Club 6 Spd.

I'm trading in my FR-S. Hate the motor!

STR or C stock...HMMMM....probably STR...

STR Build will include:
Full exhaust & E manifold, tune, & intake (if worthwhile)

Ohlins or Triple Adj XIDA's with 600/350 spgs
Progress Sways F/R + links
17x9" GUL's with 245/40/17 Bridgestone RE71R's
SCCA Legal Roll Bar (I teach HPDE's for all car clubs in Northeast))
Carbotech pads...

My questions are as follows...

How much Neg camber can I get out of the front end?
My previous 2 track/Solo 2 cars both liked between 3-4 degrees negative.
I don't care about tire wear LOL....

Is there a camber plate kit that I could add to the Coilovers?

Which Carbotech pad combo would you recommend for a ~2500 lb car on RE71R's? 10's and 8's?

I run 12/12 on my 3300 lb EVO X MR with 500WHP. To much bite for street tires...

Any other thoughts. ideas?

Thanks in advance
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby Brian » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:58 pm

As with all prior Miata, tons of camber available as soon as you lower it, no need for camber plates.
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby Ryan @ GWR » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:06 pm

We don't sell Carbotech pads but if you're familiar with and happy with that brand I would recommend AX6 or XP8 for autocross use. I would only jump up to XP8 if you need more temperature ceiling, best to start with AX6 and see how that goes first - I don't expect you'll exceed the AX6's temperature range in autocross with those tires. The ND has good brake balance as-is, so don't stagger pad compounds like is often done with the earlier generations. Go with the same pad compound on all four corners.
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby HAZMAT » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:27 pm

THX for the input...

How much front Neg camber is available if I run Coilovers, and lower the car properly?

Will the OEM adjustment along with lowering it allow me to dial in at least 3.5 degrees up front or more?

Camber plates allow me to move between a street camber setup and a track/auto x aggressive setup.

As for the Carbotech advise that sounds spot on..

THX guys

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Re: ND STR Build

Postby Brian » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:51 am

Camber plates is FRS thinking, those numbers you want is more FRS thinking. Remember that scene from Matrix where he says "NEAL, FREE YOUR MIND!" :P The Miata is not an FRS, you need to free your mind of FRS thinking or you will get the setup for Miata all wrong...no front strut suspension here so none of that FRS setup or thinking is relevant here.

Miata has far superior proper front double A arms with massive range of adjustment once the car is lowered. Nobody uses camber plates on the Miata because they are not needed, easily over 3 negative camber with moderate lowering and ultimate amount depends on how low you go. Your perceived need for 3.5 negative camber ignores the fact that camber curve is MUCH more aggressive on this car front and rear so you don't want or need FRS strut front suspension numbers anyway, again, got to free yourself of FRS thinking or you will be going the wrong way on setup. I can run any camber I want on my race Miatas and I don't run that much, don't need that much, tire temp probes tell me that we would not want that much. Look around, spend time in autocross section of miata.net, and you will see nobody using or talking about camber plates on Miata.

I am not a fan of Carbotech. We did carry them, we discontinued them. Far too sensitive to break-in, lots of other choices that don't fail when you don't follow break in procedure to the letter.
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby HAZMAT » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:32 pm

THX Brian,

Pads are such an individual choice...
I'm a LFB and pad sensitivity is important, especially near threshold braking.
For that the Carbotechs are outstanding..

I've run over 15 different pads on my E36M3, EVO X MR and FRS...
As for camber now it makes sense...THX for the post.
Sounds like 1.6-1.8 Rear and 2.3-2.5 front is closer...
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby morrisg » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:31 am

You're going to need a better LSD than the Mazda unit. I really like the OS Giken I bought for my NC STR prep. Wonderfully tuned right out of the box, very progressive lockup and very nice unlocking for corner entry without understeer. Spendy, but worth it in my book.
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby HAZMAT » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:53 pm

That's great advise on the LSD...

As soon as I have the 1st wave of parts on the car there will lots of driving and tuning to do../
Then I can ponder a LSD swap...Is your a 1.5 or 2.0?

Cheers,
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby morrisg » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:42 pm

My present car is a 2009 Miata Touring prepped for STR class competition. So it's a 2.0L MZR engine with a Moto East tune, about 195 hp with the PPE Long Tube header, mid-pipe, Goodwin Race Single and CAI. This is where I discovered just how good the OS Giken LSD is. All that power does no good if you can't put it to the pavement.

I'm waiting to see pricing on the Fiat 124 to make my choice between it and a Mazda ND MX-5. If they are close to the same, I'll be purchasing a Classico and building it to STR rules. That turbo just has too much low end grunt advantage plus big power from a tune may be possible if someone learns how to crack the ECU. Maybe so much power that the Fiat 124 may not be classed in STR… but that's another thread.
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby Brian » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:49 pm

Hmm, the ND is so quick in competition, the MIDRANGE with the skyactiv motor is already so good, I don't expect the FIAT to be faster for autocross. Our local customer Jeff Cawthorne already hitting top of PAX in stock class with regularity and we don't even have adjustable Koni on it yet. I too may get a FIAT but I don't expect it will be as fast as the ND in autocross. Weight remains the enemy.
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby morrisg » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:49 pm

Jeff is an awesome driver, I'm not surprised he is near the top of PAX in anything he drives!

I took a 2008 torque curve from a 1.4L Turbo with a 184 lb-ft peak and put it into a spreadsheet, multiplied by the transmission and diff gearing. Compared this to the ND stock torque curve from a dyno scaled up 7% to make the peak torque number match the engine torque spec, multiplied by the ND transmission and diff gearing. Not a perfect comparison but as close as I'm going to get until we can see dynos of the actual Fiat 124.

See the attached plot of the difference in rear axle torque over the rpm band. The Fiat 124 first gear advantage is ridiculous, 750 lb-ft gradually reducing to even at 6000 rpm. Second and third gears are still significantly in the Fiat's favor, 300 lb-ft reducing to a 100 lb-ft deficit above 5500 rpm. With only 100 lbs additional weight in the Fiat, this becomes a smaller advantage but it isn't a push. And there's some question about what the weight of the Fiat 124 Classico is going to be, as it is listed as 1050 kg (2310 lbs) for a Euro spec manual transmission model on a spec sheet I have found.

124 ND Gear Delta.jpg


Sorry for the thread jack, I'll be quiet now.
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Re: ND STR Build

Postby Brian » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:33 pm

Reminds me of what was said when the MazdaSpeed Miata was announced, it was only X heavier and it made X more torque. As an autocross car you don't generally see it, proved not fast. Be happy to be incorrect, but I see history repeating here.
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