PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

Miata Parts, Intakes, Superchargers, Headers, Exhausts, Shocks, Springs, Sway Bars, Brake Kits, Autocross and track mods.
huveu
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:06 pm

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by huveu »

Brian wrote:And then somebody asked me to explain what the picture is showing them, so here is the quick guide:

Our four piston Wilwood uses a 6.4 square inch pad making it the best match for size with the factory standard front calipers which use a 6.2 square inch pad, making our four piston setup a great choice for taking out the slop of the big single piston setup while dropping as much unsprung weight as possible for a comparable setup. But the best PERFORMANCE match to the optional Brembo setup is our Six Piston setup. Why? The Brembo may be 'only' four pistons but it is a relatively BIG four piston caliper with even bigger pads and as you can see in the picture our Six Piston Wilwood is the best match for those seeking to match what the factory is doing with the Brembo. WE have raced it and all our drivers loved this Six Piston Setup!

We have the little Powerlite pad on there because our competitors using that caliper are running around the forums suggesting their 'upgrade' choice is only 7 percent smaller than stock...without telling folks that math is actually based on the REAR pads and not the 6.2 square inch standard ND front pads.
This clarification about pad sizes is great, what about piston sizes?. In some of the other brake conversations in the forums, there has been talk about issues with having piston area being too big. Is this a concern for the 4 or 6 piston Wilwoods that you will be offering? Do the OEM Brembo equipped cars come with a different master cylinder or other components?

A picture comparison like the one above for pads would be great!
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

huveu wrote: This clarification about pad sizes is great, what about piston sizes?. In some of the other brake conversations in the forums, there has been talk about issues with having piston area being too big. Is this a concern for the 4 or 6 piston Wilwoods that you will be offering? Do the OEM Brembo equipped cars come with a different master cylinder or other components?

A picture comparison like the one above for pads would be great!
Not a concern with our kits
Our 4 and 6 piston caliper choices actually have nearly the same total piston area, so hydraulic balance is the same with both of them. The primary difference between our 4 and 6 is the pad size as shown in that pic.

The ND shares one master cylinder for both brakes and clutch just like the NC, so expect that to be the same part for standard and Brembo option alike. Everything else in the braking system aside from the front calipers (front and rear rotors, lines, rear calipers) remains unchanged from standard.

We've seen some other vendors throwing around numbers about the factory caliper specs, not all of which are accurate. Can't say whether that is just due to honest errors or if it's intentional smoke and mirrors. Either way, we're less concerned with that and much more focused on ensuring that what we provide offers the most performance without oversights or sacrifices. We've gone from running all the numbers to design our "ideal" kit on paper all the way through to racing lap after lap on the final product with many drivers and getting unanimous "thumbs-up" on the brake performance and balance. The proof is in the pudding, as they say :D
Brian
Site Admin
Posts: 11299
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by Brian »

Ohlins for ND, Prototypes!

Pictures out of Japan of Ohlins and ND turned out to be attempts to adapt NC hardware so we started fresh with Ohlins USA, sent them one stock front and one stock rear assembly for their shock dyno, and the motion ratios, etc. What you see here is the first ND prototype set next to the stock front and rear from our Blue ND. No springs on the rear prototypes because we have not settled on the rear rates yet and will be playing with several choices.
Attachments
Ohlins-ND.jpg
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
morrisg
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:02 am

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by morrisg »

So let me guess: 6kg/mm front spring rates (slightly less than the 7kg/mm NC version due to the lighter weight) and looking at 3kg/mm to 4kg/mm rear rates? Of course, I could be way off base since I don't know the motion ratios of the new ND. But I'm thinking how good the NC Ohlins were and would expect similar wheel rates for the new ND versions.

For reference, I converted the ND stock rates Brian posted above into about 2.8kg/mm front and 1.4kg/mm rear spring rates. So I'm guessing about double the stock rates for the Ohlins. Of course, it's easy to replace the Ohlins springs for any value you wish if you want to tune them yourself. Yay! No tapered rear springs anymore!
Brian
Site Admin
Posts: 11299
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by Brian »

Indeed will be testing same rates as we had with NC and slightly lighter like 6/3.5 because the ND is both lighter and faster than NC without going to 7/4. One thing Ohlins is letting us do here is offer two different kits from the factory, both a street and race kit. With the NC they custom made the Race kits one at a time, now the Race kit will be standard 'off the shelf' choice already done from the factory with the higher spring rates.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
apexlvr
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:13 am

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by apexlvr »

Just got my Club a few nights ago, and I'm super curious what the spring rates are! I see that you measured the non-Club @ 156 front 80 rear....are we sure the Club even has different springs? I didn't see anything mentioned on the Mazda propaganda, just shocks, LSD, and strut bar. I'm optimistic that I have stiffer springs, but not very convinced. Car feels SOFT. I hope someone measures them soon!
2016 Ceramic Club- 6MT, BBS/Brembos
Brian
Site Admin
Posts: 11299
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by Brian »

I have been told CLUB has slightly stiffer rates. My guess is 10 to 15 pounds stiffer.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
Posts: 11299
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA
Contact:

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by Brian »

Fun Autocross Pics by Greg Lee of our last ND Autocross on Progress Sways, Cusco Coilovers and 17x8 6UL wheels.
Attachments
Cusco-Coilovers.jpg
Cusco2.jpg
Cusco3.jpg
Cusco4.jpg
Cusco6.jpg
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

Here are the results from the shock dynos of the factory ND front and rear shocks. These provided to us by our friends at Feal Suspension who are one of the companies we're working with right now on developing some great options for the ND.
Shock Dynos_ND_Factory.jpg
apexlvr
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:13 am

Re: ND Measurements Thread...

Post by apexlvr »

So for the layman, what does this say about the ND dampers? And are these the Bilsteins, or the non-club dampers?
2016 Ceramic Club- 6MT, BBS/Brembos
Post Reply