PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

[jlbeas13]

Hello Brian,

I'm curious about what you have heard regarding the Abarth. I see it has more power, more torque, and more weight (also somehow cheaper than the Club). I have read that the gearing is different, so even though it has more power and torque, the acceleration actually might be the same as the Club up to about 55 mph? I have also read that the suspension might be stiffer. What have you heard?

Jacob

[Brian]

I have driven the Abarth 500 with the 1.4 turbo motor that will arrive in the new 124 and it is fun. Given the extra weight and other changes, including transmission ratios, I expect in stock form the ND Miata will be faster under most conditions. From 1000 rpms the ND makes torque in an amazing manner, the Turbo 1.4 in stock form needs about 3000 rpms before it goes, and the Fiat versions of the car are significantly heavier, and that weight kills you in the turns, under braking, under acceleration, etc. Thus, for both autocross and straight-line performance I expect the lighter ND wins the contest in stock form. For autocross in particular I expect the ND wins with BIG margin over the 124 in stock form.

On the other hand, let's say we are not so concerned about objective numbers and stock form and more concerned about subjective "FUN FACTOR". I expect many will find the midrange turbo style of power delivery to be more fun than ND, whether or not it is faster. And once we are not concerned with staying stock it is certainly easier to get more and more power from a motor that has a turbo already on it from the factory. Given all the knowledge already out there about this motor in the Fiat 500 Abarth and Dodge Dart applications (and more), I expect a few owners of the ND platform with 1.4T motor and Fiat badge to be driving 200 hp at the wheels sooner and easier than any ND owner with the Mazda badge on the back. I drove a MODIFIED Abarth 500, wrote about it in another thread. The modified 1.4T delivered nice torque from about 2000 rpms, while the same motor in stock form needs 3000rpms, and it was modified to make about 200 hp at the wheels, which was enough to make it a blast in traffic with an extra meaty 2500 to 4500 rpm range. My wife may get the new Fiat 124....and if that happens we will plan to test some mods and see how it goes.

[Brian]

Good-Win Racing is HOME of the MOST POWERFUL Normally Aspirated 2.0 ND....AGAIN!

NEW RECORD 180.5 HP at the wheels, 179 Ft/lbs of TORQUE!

That's a 200 HP Miata in factory lingo, given that the factory quote horsepower at the motor, and a good 20hp is lost getting to the wheels. All you folks who said the ND should be 200 hp....now it can be! Same exact Orange Virus Tune as used for our Shorty header. Low line in graph is STOCK 139hp same ND, same dyno, which means we are now UP 41 HORSEPOWER FROM STOCK!!! Before we get too excited and give all credit to Orange Virus Mat and the header we must again note our baseline of 139 HP was with stock 'tight' motor that has certainly loosened up with time. Nonetheless, car feels amazing now!




First we made our Shorty Max Power 4-2-1 Header, which is the best drop-in ND header that fits in place of the stock header, yet makes more torque than even the Mazda long tube 4-1 headers in the Global Cup cars. Then we asked the question, what if we took all the lessons and math we perfected from beating a long tube full race header with a shorty, and applied those lessons to making the ULTIMATE Long Tube Race header for ND? Behold the Ultimate in ND Header technology! Hand made merge sections join max length primaries into secondaries, careful calculation and testing of each and every piece and section to get flow and scavenge perfected.

Note that cost is going to be MUCH higher than our shorty, this is a no holds barred setup, no expense sparred in making the ULTIMATE header. It will not be double the cost of our shorty setup, but nearly! It's a ton of hand labor in this design, cannot easily be mass produced like our shorty. Made it with our braces on the car but will not take ANY complaints about it not fitting with other braces, it's a LOT OF PIPE you see here to fit and the fit is tight (those who need drop in easy fitment must look to our shorty). Those on a budget look to our shorty, those who cannot disconnect motor mounts and jack the motor to drop in this BEAST need to look to our shorty!

ND-RACE-Header.jpg (60.35 KiB) Viewed 9520 times

One 'BIG' additional thing we took the opportunity to do here. With Racers in mind we stuck the BIGGEST RESONATOR possible in the special short midpipe this unit uses (along with BIG flow converter). The downside of this choice is the Resonator is now the lowest hanging point under the car as you can see below. We did it anyway to enable the Racers to use our straight pipe design mufflers (RoadsterSport Race and RoadsterSport Super Street) and still get 'reasonable' sound that can be street driven to events and back without making you go crazy. On the dyno these straight pipe designs make 2-3 more horsepower and save weight. It also helps get the lowest polar moment possible by having as much of the muffler system as possible between the front and rear wheels. The lowest point with this massive resonator is between the rear wheels so going over speed bumps should not be issue but wanted to put this point up front so we don't get complaints later. Big Ultra High Flow Converter in the special midpipe has O2 connections where needed so factory sensors are plug and play for no codes.

ND-MaxMidpipe.jpg (110.05 KiB) Viewed 9474 times

[Chuck H]

Now THAT'S a header!!!

Really makes me wish I had an ND, just to run one of those! Except I'd probably want to keep if off the car for a while just to admire it.

Any thoughts on doing a 4-2-1 like that for the NC? I know there are a lot of NC headers out there, but none that have all the advantages that one should. In theory you should be able to get the high end of your Max Power header combined with the extra mid-range boost of the PPE LT all in one design.

[Brian]

Now THAT'S a header!!!

Really makes me wish I had an ND, just to run one of those! Except I'd probably want to keep if off the car for a while just to admire it.

Any thoughts on doing a 4-2-1 like that for the NC? I know there are a lot of NC headers out there, but none that have all the advantages that one should. In theory you should be able to get the high end of your Max Power header combined with the extra mid-range boost of the PPE LT all in one design.

Glad you like it.

What we find in the ND motor is incredibly dependent on scavenging and flow speed in a way the NC motor is not. We actually did experiment and test 4-2-1 designs on the NC and it just did not payoff, was not worth the extra cost, did not beat our Max Power 4-1 shorty at any point in the power band. Totally different motor in the NC and that motor loves a 4-1 design. In fact, hard for me to say even the long tube 4-1 pays off against the shorty 4-1 on the NC motor...because without having Tuner sitting in the car (rather than remote tuning) customers often get BIGGER power result on the dyno on NC motors with our classic 4-1 1.6 inch primary Max Power than they do with long tube 1.6.

My first clue with ND motor that 4-2-1 is the ONLY way to do it right came when my eyes went BIG looking at the CRAZY factory long tube 4-2-1 the factory did for the Mazda3 install of the same Skyactiv motor we have in the ND. Below is that Mazda factory Mazda3 header. Mazda was so convinced that was the right way to go they had to carve a basketball size hole in the firewall of the Mazda3 to fit that monster. It didn't take long in our testing for us to really understand and SEE in the results the reason the factory went to such trouble, the Skyactiv motor WANTS a big long tube 4-2-1 header for best results. All we did here was give the Skyactiv motor EXACTLY what it wants for best performance at all points of rpm.

[Curves]

Oh boy, I shouldn't have read this thread.
Looks like Round 2 is coming - Sell NC, Buy ND, Buy Parts, Drop car off at Rocky's

Waiting for the transmission fix first!

[ronbauer]

Mmmmm, yummy!

So with that big cat, will it be placed to be legal for STR purposes?

Ron

[Brian]

Mmmmm, yummy!

So with that big cat, will it be placed to be legal for STR purposes?

Ron

Yes...I figured the first 10 buyers likely to be all STR competitors.

[Brian]

Back on the same dyno again this morning to back up our runs from the other day, hit 180 again and again, amazing consistency. Different muffler on the car today, our new twin tip Super Street instead of the single tip Super Street we had on the car earlier in the week. Hit 180.5 earlier in the week, 180.4 today, that's solid backup and consistency! Here is today overlaid with stock best baseline of this same ND which was 139hp on this same dyno. We are indeed up OVER 40 hp from stock, and as you can see on the graph there are various points where torque gain is over 40 Ft/lbs. Before we get too excited and give all credit to Orange Virus Mat and the header we must again note our baseline of 139 HP was with stock 'tight' motor that has certainly loosened up with time, so some gains here are motor getting a bit more free to make this power with header and tune.

Notice it is NOT peaky gains only useful for race cars at high rpms, look at the torque line which is up over 30 Ft/lbs EVERYWHERE!

[Brian]

And now for comparisons!

Run 003, Best Stock Run 139HP
Run 009, Best with Mazda's Global Cup Car 4-1 Race Header (NOTICE FRS STYLE UGLY TORQUE DIP)
Run 045 Best with our Shorty (notice BEST torque until we get to our Long Tube).
Run 070, Best with our New Long Tube