PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

Miata Parts, Intakes, Superchargers, Headers, Exhausts, Shocks, Springs, Sway Bars, Brake Kits, Autocross and track mods.
NathanD277
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:32 am

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by NathanD277 »

I'm looking forward to it.
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AnthonyP495
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Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:22 am

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by AnthonyP495 »

Brian wrote:
almazing wrote:I'm interested in picking up the Ohlins Coilovers soon. Do they come with top hats and ready to install? Or does one need to disassemble the stock shocks to re-use stock parts? Thanks.
UPDATE: Sorry to say original press photos was NOT the manner in which US kit ships. US Kits for ND are just like NC kits, they use the factory ND rear top hats!!!
Hi Brian,
I'm strongly leaning on obtaining a set of these, matter of fact I prepaid for a set but I'm puzzled as to why these folks don't supply the rear hats and one has to use the OEM ones where most other less noted brands supply them. Although they have DFV technology the fact that it lacks the hats bothers me. Do you know the reason why they don't supply them?
Thanks,
Brian
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by Brian »

Change if you like but you will be changing to something that is LESS sophisticated, not more simply because rear top hats are included. For example, I think our FEAL setup is amazing for track and autocross guys seeking great bang for the buck coilovers, and the FEAL setup has the top hats front and rear....but it does not have the DFV advantage. Nonetheless, these and the RSR are the other two choices I like.

Ohlins see the rear top hats as not serving the customer. Spherical bearing rear has theoretical benefit to the pure race customer but these are sold as 'road and track' and in keeping with the dual purpose it just adds ride NVH most folks don't need. The NC kit was the same, remains the same in this respect, and still considered the best of the best for that generation thanks to dual flow valving.... so obviously lack of rear top hats didn't have much 'impact' on NC customer opinions of the kit.

In the Miata you effectively sit right on the rear shock, the top of the rear shock is just inches from your backside, the factory top hat with rubber bits are likely the best choice for most customers actually using these on the street because it absorbs all the minor NVH which is otherwise transferred though the car to you. And the dual flow valving means your backside does not get jolted over the more serious sudden changes in road surface (the Ohlins valving opens in a manner to absorb the impact in a manner that that lesser choices just cannot do). I love the DFV for street and track, on track when I accidentally take too much curb the car does not get knocked off my chosen line thanks to the DFV operation, and in the real world ugly potholes are less severe thanks to the DFV.

I have asked Ohlins on behalf of our race customers about getting some rear top hats with spherical bearings for the guys actually racing. After all, we do race ours and I am willing to take the hit in minor road imperfection NVH (especially since I still have the DFV giving me some protection against the major potholes in the real world, etc). If Ohlins won't do it we will have our friends at FEAL make us some top hats we can offer, just as we do with FEAL top hats for earlier generation Miatas. But again I will only recommend those for the dedicated track guys.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
AnthonyP495
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:22 am

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by AnthonyP495 »

Brian wrote:Change if you like but you will be changing to something that is LESS sophisticated, not more simply because rear top hats are included. For example, I think our FEAL setup is amazing for track and autocross guys seeking great bang for the buck coilovers, and the FEAL setup has the top hats front and rear....but it does not have the DFV advantage. Nonetheless, these and the RSR are the other two choices I like.

Ohlins see the rear top hats as not serving the customer. Spherical bearing rear has theoretical benefit to the pure race customer but these are sold as 'road and track' and in keeping with the dual purpose it just adds ride NVH most folks don't need. The NC kit was the same, remains the same in this respect, and still considered the best of the best for that generation thanks to dual flow valving.... so obviously lack of rear top hats didn't have much 'impact' on NC customer opinions of the kit.

In the Miata you effectively sit right on the rear shock, the top of the rear shock is just inches from your backside, the factory top hat with rubber bits are likely the best choice for most customers actually using these on the street because it absorbs all the minor NVH which is otherwise transferred though the car to you. And the dual flow valving means your backside does not get jolted over the more serious sudden changes in road surface (the Ohlins valving opens in a manner to absorb the impact in a manner that that lesser choices just cannot do). I love the DFV for street and track, on track when I accidentally take too much curb the car does not get knocked off my chosen line thanks to the DFV operation, and in the real world ugly potholes are less severe thanks to the DFV.

I have asked Ohlins on behalf of our race customers about getting some rear top hats with spherical bearings for the guys actually racing. After all, we do race ours and I am willing to take the hit in minor road imperfection NVH (especially since I still have the DFV giving me some protection against the major potholes in the real world, etc). If Ohlins won't do it we will have our friends at FEAL make us some top hats we can offer, just as we do with FEAL top hats for earlier generation Miatas. But again I will only recommend those for the dedicated track guys.
Thanks Brian for taking the time in sharing your knowledge and expertise, illuminating where there is darkness. I have a much clearer picture now. I appreciate your dedication and passion.
almazing
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:48 pm

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by almazing »

Brian wrote:Change if you like but you will be changing to something that is LESS sophisticated, not more simply because rear top hats are included. For example, I think our FEAL setup is amazing for track and autocross guys seeking great bang for the buck coilovers, and the FEAL setup has the top hats front and rear....but it does not have the DFV advantage. Nonetheless, these and the RSR are the other two choices I like.

Ohlins see the rear top hats as not serving the customer. Spherical bearing rear has theoretical benefit to the pure race customer but these are sold as 'road and track' and in keeping with the dual purpose it just adds ride NVH most folks don't need. The NC kit was the same, remains the same in this respect, and still considered the best of the best for that generation thanks to dual flow valving.... so obviously lack of rear top hats didn't have much 'impact' on NC customer opinions of the kit.

In the Miata you effectively sit right on the rear shock, the top of the rear shock is just inches from your backside, the factory top hat with rubber bits are likely the best choice for most customers actually using these on the street because it absorbs all the minor NVH which is otherwise transferred though the car to you. And the dual flow valving means your backside does not get jolted over the more serious sudden changes in road surface (the Ohlins valving opens in a manner to absorb the impact in a manner that that lesser choices just cannot do). I love the DFV for street and track, on track when I accidentally take too much curb the car does not get knocked off my chosen line thanks to the DFV operation, and in the real world ugly potholes are less severe thanks to the DFV.

I have asked Ohlins on behalf of our race customers about getting some rear top hats with spherical bearings for the guys actually racing. After all, we do race ours and I am willing to take the hit in minor road imperfection NVH (especially since I still have the DFV giving me some protection against the major potholes in the real world, etc). If Ohlins won't do it we will have our friends at FEAL make us some top hats we can offer, just as we do with FEAL top hats for earlier generation Miatas. But again I will only recommend those for the dedicated track guys.
Thanks for clearing that up. So the stock rears need to be disassembled and stock parts used for the coilovers. Are the fronts just plug and play? Or do they also require disassembly of the front stock shocks and stock parts used in the coilovers?

As you can tell, I very much prefer to do a complete one for one swap with no re-using of stock parts. If I need to swap my suspension to stock for whatever reason (rebuilding of coilovers, winter, selling, etc.). I'm sure many others feel the same way. It seems that this may be a cost and manufacturing cutting measure from Ohlins. And it does seem to pass on to the customer as 2100 for a set of Ohlins is inexpensive(relatively speaking). But at the expense of convenience.

If people want rear top hats with my Ohlins(I don't care about NVH), can you get them to customers?
Brian
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by Brian »

Fronts are plug and play, no stock bits needed.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by Brian »

Many hours on the DYNO yesterday before the Fiat event, and NEW RECORD ND Miata RESULTS 193 HP, 191 Ft/lbs Torque! Let me add this was EXCEPTIONAL results...which customers are NOT likely to repeat, weather perfect, pressure high, many hours of Tuner Mat in the car, and software did not fight us. 95 octane again. Product description will use our 180hp numbers for DynoDynamics repeated three different dates.

Mat from Orange Virus Tuning drove ALL NIGHT to work half the day on the tune to make it happen. First few hours of work got us from 180 hp at the wheels using tune that was in the car from our standard header development up to 186hp. Then a few more hours got us to 187/188. Then another hour got us to 189/190, etc. Great work by Mat, the tune and Longtube/Midpipe combo and RoadsterSport Race muffler are all live on our site now for ordering. This same ND Miata started 139 HP at the wheels on this same dyno!

Brian's thoughts on the Journey to Get HERE. Honestly I fear these numbers are TOO HIGH, perhaps conditions today too favorable. On the other hand, when it was announced that the new Miata had 13:1 compression from the factory with 2.0 liters those of us who understand motors were scratching our heads as to where the horsepower was hiding. I assumed with those compression numbers that the power had to be lurking in there somewhere. After all, my 2006 Miata daily driver with 2.5 conversion and 13:1 compression built motor makes 221 hp at the wheels, and our NC LIGHT race project made 270 HP at the wheels a decade ago from high compression 2.5 as the FIRST NC generation to prove the 2.5 concept (see vintage Grassroots Magazine article page about us beating a whole field of Vipers linked from our front website homepage). We hoped this hot factory motor was simply getting choked by a very restrictive exhaust system and very conservative tune. That is precisely what we seem to have found, the power is there just waiting to get out. These results lovingly tuned on the dyno by Mat of Orange Virus Tuning with our Longtube Header/Midpipe and RoadsterSport Race Muffler as the only mods (still stock intake). For reference this was 95 octane pump gas in the tank of our ND, our NC running 221hp is doing so on E85 (effective octane 115 or better).

Motivation for this project was to equip our ND Autocross buddies with the header they need to take down the S2000 in SCCA STR at Nationals. This result still trails the S2000 with header and full exhaust in terms of peak horsepower, but crushes the S2000 in terms of torque everywhere. I think it was Carrol Shelby who said words to the effect that Horsepower Sells Cars,Torque Wins Races. Add in the fact that ND is 500 pounds lighter and I think it will be a good fight at Nationals with ND now armed and ready to take the Crown with the right driver. At the Spring Nationals our buddy Ron Bauer already took fastest time in STR with our standard length header that captures much of the same gains, we will have him switched to the Longtube before Nationals. Most of the other STR hotshots are already in line here to get the same and we plan to have all of them ready to go in time.
Attachments
LongTubeUpdate190.jpg
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
NathanD277
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:32 am

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by NathanD277 »

I'm loving the results from this header and tune! I also saw on another forum that the top end was cleaned up further so that it made nearly peak power all the way from 5,700-7,200RPM. I'm even more anxious to get mine now! Thank you guys for the hard work.
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morrisg
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:02 am

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by morrisg »

Just gorgeous work, you guys! Really appreciated at how much effort has gone into finding this and sorting it all out. Kudos to everyone involved!
Ruiner
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:28 am

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Post by Ruiner »

Brian,
How much lighter is your branded aluminum front tower brace compared to factory steel bits?
2007 PRHT
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