LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

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Carguy123
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Carguy123 »

Also, from an autocross perspective, with that 3.43 rear end what is your max speed in 2nd gear.

The Camaro I drove had the 3.23 and hit 63/64 in 2nd.
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

It's not apples to apples to just compare engine weight or transmission weight alone because there are a lot of related details that affect weights too. As an example, the Getrag differential itself is lighter than the Torsen it replaces but you also need to add the mounting kit which puts the total assembly as it sits in the rear subframe at a couple pounds more.

Thec ar is currently right at 2100. That's just about exactly 100 lbs more than it was before the swap. Keep in mind that's up against a 1.6L so compared to a 1.8 it would be a smaller difference. The interesting note is that weight balance front to rear is exactly the same as it was with the 1.6L turbo motor that was in it previously. That's because much of the added weight is in the transmission which is more centered in the chassis and a bit of it is also in the rear. That weight distribution element is why the car still drives just like a Miata, albeit with a good bit more power.

Regarding the shifter, I can't yet make a good comparison. You'll notice in my on-track vids that I am shifting very slowly because I'm still chasing a clutch engagement issue so it is tough to shift and grinds if I am not very patient when shifting. Still unknown if it is an issue with a mis-match of parts (CTS trans with a clutch and throwout bearing for the Camaro) or if it is a hydraulic issue. I'm working on getting to the bottom of it. At any rate, I have heard from a couple others that when it's working right it shifts nicely, I just can't yet say from first-hand experience.

I am using a factory ECU - it just has V8R's tune on it. We're going to be doing some work soon to switch to E85 fuel and re-tune more aggressively for even more power.
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

Carguy123 wrote:Also, from an autocross perspective, with that 3.43 rear end what is your max speed in 2nd gear.

The Camaro I drove had the 3.23 and hit 63/64 in 2nd.
Well my transmission and diff choices were made for road race, so 1st and 2nd gear were not even a consideration ;)

With 7200rpm redline, 3.43 rear and 22.5" tall tire: 2nd hits 56 mph. For autocross, 3.23 could push 2nd higher but I think with the torque, targeting 2nd/3rd gear would be better than 1st/2nd so I'd probably go 3.73.
Carguy123
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Carguy123 »

Is it even a possibility that the shifter could mount directly to the transmission? I couldn't tell from the pictures you posted.

I also have a Locost that I think this would fit in and having the shifter a little further forward would be nice plus do away with any slop that might be inherent in the stock set up.
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

That trans just isn't designed for a direct mount. That's not a bad thing, some of the best transmissions out there in terms of feel are not direct mount. You could shorten/lengthen the dogbone in the linkage to move the shifter as needed.
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

Chuckwalla Valley Raceway. New Miata lap records in both directions. Counter-clockwise 1:51.9 / Clockwise 1:51.4

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Two day event at CVR, CCW Saturday then CW Sunday. Just a fun weekend getting laps in the car, getting more comfortable with it, etc. Kept data collection and adjustments light and just did lots and lots of laps. Fast laps in this thing requires a lot of trust in how fast it will go through sections. Car was happy to run all day long both days. Reminds me of tracking a naturally aspirated Miata just with the an entirely different performance envelope. Using leftover tires, had one set with over 20 heat cycles that I had already used at ACS, MRLS, and day 1 of SLB. Set 2 were fresher with just day 2 of SLB on them. Saturday's CCW time was on the old set. Switched to the fresher tires for the last session but never got clean laps, was doing 1:52's amidst traffic. CW was a little less drama on the fresher tires. It's a little ridiculous how fast the car is. Fastest car on track Saturday, 2nd fastest Sunday behind a GT1 class 911 Turbo on full slicks and the whole nine. Most cars in red group were doing ~6-12 seconds slower pace so clean laps were scarce because I'd almost always catch someone.

Counter-clockwise:



Clockwise:



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Carguy123
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Carguy123 »

Congrats on the times. I'm glad to see that it isn't taking a lot of getting used to.

A totally unrelated question, but since a 6 speed isn't needed on the track, is the bell housing bolt pattern on the LFX the same as other engines so that possibly a more compact and lighter 5 speed might be used?

I had fewer missed shifts with my 5 speed in the Miata than when I switched it to a 6 speed and never used top gear in either.

How have you been contacting V8R? I've emailed and left several voice messages but no one has ever gotten back to me. Do you have something different that what is on their website?
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

Not sure on the bellhousing bolt pattern, it's a hard thing to verify without just buying transmissions from the junkyard and seeing what matches up. I've been really happy with the ratios in the 'box I have, so haven't looked elsewhere much.

I just saw Shandelle from V8Roadsters at PRI this past weekend. They've had some recent extenuating circumstances that have made replies take a lot longer than usual. I hear they're almost back on top of things, but can't hurt to shoot them another follow-up email.
Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

Always so focused on moving forward; next race, next improvement, next season, next steps. Every once in a while though it's fun to glance back to appreciate how far we've come, and it reminds me it doesn't happen over-night.

2011 Buttonwillow 13CW (my first track day) - 2:13.9

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2017 Buttonwillow 13CW (Superlap Battle) - 1:48.4

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Ryan @ GWR
Posts: 497
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: LFX Engine Swap (GM V6) at GWR

Post by Ryan @ GWR »

A post about goals.

Those who have been following along with me for a while will recall I’ve posted about goals a couple times over the years. It started small, but years went by with goals achieved, each more ambitious than the last, and both the car and driver kept improving. Then I attended my first Superlap Battle. I realized I had built a quick Miata, but I wanted to make this little Miata something that is fast no matter what you stack it up against. I set my sights on breaking the 1:50 barrier at Buttonwillow (something a Miata had never done before) and taking a podium in Limited RWD at Superlap Battle. This year, I won the class and went 1:48.

Along the way I’ve had some amazing businesses and friends believing in these goals and helping along. Goodwin Racing has put its faith in this program and supported it in countless ways. Blackbird Fabworx made sure I was racing in a safe chassis and have been instrumental from concept to creation in many of the crazy ideas we’ve come up with. V8Roadsters made it possible for the car to have the powertrain it needs to compete on this level. Singular (specifically Sean) has shared in this adventure through thick and thin. Rocky's Miatomotive has lent a hand more times than I can count. Feal Suspension put together a coilover that I could drive fast and confidently on. There was a time I was just racing for me, but these days the HyperMiata is about a lot more than that. There are a lot of businesses and people that I look up to behind this effort, and there are so many of you who have followed along over the years, contributing and cheering us on, these days we're racing for all of you as well.

So, what’s next?

Re-building the car over the last two years, especially in the last few months, it was all push push push to get to SLB 2017. In the midst of that craziness, I had this funny kind of daydream idea that some day when I won at SLB I would sit back and relax. I didn’t expect to win LRWD the first year I returned, but the irony is that doing so has made me more hungry than ever to make the car faster. I can’t wait to get this next season started, to get out to the garage and start refining and improving things, to get back on the race track turning more laps and tuning.

In 2018 we return to SLB with a target on us. There’s no way to know what’s in the works in shops across the US that may be ready by next year, 1:48 was enough for the win this year but next year it probably won’t be. If you aren't moving forward, you're falling behind so we need to set a new goal to push towards. The track record for Limited RWD is 1:44.602, set by Cody Kishel in the seriously prepped Excelsior Motorsports C6 Corvette in 2014. That was the last year the class allowed flat bottom floors and 80tw tires, and nobody has run anywhere close to that before or since. That’s the aim. If someone else is going to take the win in 2018, they’ll need to be on pace for a new record because I intend to be.

3.881 seconds to find from this year’s time. Time to get to work.

Respect our elders even as we strive to surpass them:
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