PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

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tknospdr
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by tknospdr »

Chuck H wrote:That's going to make it more interesting to try to tune the 124 if you're fighting against emissions test code in the ECU that dials back power to keep emissions down when it detects the car being on a dyno. But then again, road tuning could be a lot of fun in that car!

Still can't decide whether I like Fiat's interpretation of the ND body style or Mazda's better. They're both beautiful roadsters, both with their own unique character! :D
That was my dilemma, in the end, the lack of manual transmissions and my impatience won out. I got the Miata with the B/BBS package. Got a great deal at my local dealership. I basically got the upgrade for free.
Now saving for the 50/50 exhaust and tune upgrade. Dealer says if I let them install it my warranty stays intact too.
Woot.
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by Brian »

Our Fiat124 is BACK TO STOCK so the exhaust bits can go off to production. With the car back to stock we figured we would take opportunity to baseline the Fiat124 again, and use a different brand of dyno. So here it is on popular Dynojet, made pretty much the same numbers as DynoDynamics unit, just a few points higher on the DynoJet. Go back to page two of thread and you see stock DynoDynamics numbers 145 hp and 170, here on Dynojet we are 150/178. Thus appears Dynojet is a bit more optimistic and/or our Fiat has loosened up a bit too. As always, what matters in dyno testing is BEFORE and AFTER of SAME CAR on SAME DYNO. Once we have production exhaust bits will likely hit both dynos again for additional data. Lots more dyno fun to come!
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dynoFiat124Stock.jpg
Brian Goodwin
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by Brian »

Damping Force Comparison Chart.

Dyno sheet showing the rebound (top side) and compression (bottom side) and a number chart. It shows the OE 124 Tokicos, the standard model ND Tokicos (basically the same rebound but 124 compression is notably softer front and rear) as well as the OE ND Club Bilsteins (not Cup as marked, not to be confused with MX5 Cup racing shocks) and the KONI Sports adjusted to the full soft setting. The chart is in Newtons of force and Meters per second of piston speed. The general rule of thumb is that the KONI Sport’s maximum adjustment is about double the min setting pretty much across the piston speed range which means that it is quite wide and more than covers the front Club’s rebound force once adjuster into the range. You can also see that the front Club’s compression force is really extremely high which accounts for lots of harshness and the great disparity from the aggressive Club front valving to the not particularly aggressive Club rear. The KONI valving even at full soft is much more balanced end to end (identical in bump, different in rebound) with Sport rear higher in bump and rebound even at full soft vs. the Club rear.
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KONI Damping.jpg
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by Brian »

Time for Limited Slip!

Fiat does not offer a limited slip that can be installed in the Classica, you need to buy the Abarth version that is not available yet. Asked them if they could sell us the part, but they are not convinced it will install in the housing of the regular 124, though I imagine it will. So, what to do for a limited slip? Looking at the housing it is immediately clear the diff housing is the same as our ND Miata. So, perhaps you can just order the Mazda Limited Slip internals from Mazda for the ND and install it in the Fiat? NOPE... The Fiat uses a version of the NC transmission and the ND uses the new Skyactiv trans and the ratios are totally different, and the final drive ratio is radically different.. Result is that if you try to install the Mazda limited slip into the Fiat's rear housing, you need massive shims, too much shim for it to work and last for long. So, what can you do? What we did is install an ND rear housing with ND rear 2.9 ratio and Mazda limited slip that fits that 2.9. That means our Fiat now does 67 mph in 2nd gear! Stock Fiat 2nd gear was too short for local autocross events before which typically get a bit over 60mph, and too much time is lost having to grab third gear.

Picture of our head wrench Rocky finishing the install today.
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FiatLimitedSlip.jpg
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mini22
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by mini22 »

So when can we expect to see the exhaust option on the 124? Further will you be considering any underdrive pulley option? This was something that Road Race Motors Sports offered on the 500 Abarth. Any plans for an intake or a piggyback ECU? Eurocompulsion is currently offering a piggy back for the 124.
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by Brian »

Eurocompulsion piggy is already installed, cannot yet feel any difference but instructions say give it a few cycles to learn the car, more than a tank of gas, etc. So, will keep driving and then dyno after some miles are on it. Never seen an underdrive pulley that came within miles of the claims made to sell it, so we will not be doing that.

Exhaust system coming along well, production takes time, but I hope to post more on first production samples next week.
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mini22
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by mini22 »

I assume you are referring to EDL(Eurodrive Lite). I am very curious to see how this performs
as I would consider installing it. I assume you went with the Race option. on the exhaust I did not remember.
Is the exhaust you are developing a single or a quad as in the Abarth 124? By the way perhaps
you can answer this. Where is the Abarth 124? Further why is the Classica the only model
offered with a manual right now when Fiat promised a manual Lusso? Road tests of the Abarth and
Lusso show they are both 75 to 100 LBs heavier than the Classica which itself is 100 LBs more
than the MX5. I didn't think sound deadening weighed that much. Sorry for all the questions but I
thought you might have some insight into this.
tknospdr
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by tknospdr »

The turbo engine is heavier than the Skyactiv.
Brian
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by Brian »

And the Fiat is longer front and rear and that bigger size means more weight, and it has a much heavier/bigger battery (see our light battery conversion a few pages back), and the more insulation, and the heavier NC Miata sourced transmission, etc.
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Re: PROJECT FIAT 124, Testing, Measurements, Dyno, etc

Post by Brian »

mini22 wrote:I assume you are referring to EDL(Eurodrive Lite). I am very curious to see how this performs
as I would consider installing it. I assume you went with the Race option. on the exhaust I did not remember.
Is the exhaust you are developing a single or a quad as in the Abarth 124? By the way perhaps
you can answer this. Where is the Abarth 124? Further why is the Classica the only model
offered with a manual right now when Fiat promised a manual Lusso? Road tests of the Abarth and
Lusso show they are both 75 to 100 LBs heavier than the Classica which itself is 100 LBs more
than the MX5. I didn't think sound deadening weighed that much. Sorry for all the questions but I
thought you might have some insight into this.
Watch the Fiat section of our site, starting to add the exhaust details over the next few weeks, hope to get exhaust pics up there later next week. Doing both a duals...and a quad. Abarth version is due in USA in just a few months.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
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