Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

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Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Cotomeus » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:14 pm

Hi Brian,

I am a new MX-5 driver from Singapore and after reading through your sites and having been through
a couple of track days, I feel it is time for me to take the plunge into doing a suspension mod for the
car and your recommendation would come a long way to help save me pain and money in the long run.

My Car Details
2008 6-Speed Manual Sports Package PRHT NC with stock LSD and bilstein suspension

Tires and Rims
Track
Front-Volks Racing RE30 offset 50mm (Falken 215/45/17)
Rear - Volks Racing SE37 offset 48mm (Falken 215/45/17)

Street/Drift
Front - Cheap Rims offset 50mm (Michelin PS3 205/45/17)
Rear - Same as above (Any cheap 17 inch tires that I can find)

Usage :
I am doing track probably once a month, and seize every opportunity that I have to do a quick 20 mins
drifting session, so I suppose that I can be considered as a pretty aggressive driver. This car is also my daily drive.

Objective :
A dual purpose car that offers the flexibility of a relatively comfortable drive but can take up a challenge
of a occasional track day with reduced body roll while cornering hard, and also stability and "predictability"
when I want to throw the back out and maintain drift through a corner.

Parts in consideration
Ohlin DFV
HOTCHKIS front and back sway set
Further consideration - Beatrush aluminium brace sets

Questions

1. I understand that the rear suspension set up for the rear of a PRHT is different from the soft-top, so what adjustments
do I need to take note of?

2. I was being told that helper spring might be needed to prevent race springs from clanging when you hit a bump in daily drive.

3. For the differences between the Ohlin DFV and the sports version, I am inclined to get the sports version, but would the
higher spring rates means a very uncomfortable ride for a daily drive? or could the click adjustments help to offset that impact?

4. I choose the hotchkis due to the flexibility that it offers, 3 for both front and rear. Between the Hotchkis and Racing Beat
that you highly recommended, can you share a little of your experiences with them? Also, can you provide the rigidity ratings
for the Racing Beat Sway Bar Set as it's not on the site. Also would the hotchkis be too stiff for my requirements?

5. Finally, is there any other parts that you could recommend which would supplement my choice? I did consider getting the
coil overs first then the sway later, but since it's easier to install the sway together with the coil over, I decided to get them both.
Hopefully the ride won't turn out too stiff.

Hope to hear from you soon so that I can have the order placed asap :)
Cotomeus
 
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Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Brian » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:43 am

1. Minor weight difference of the PRHT that is compensated in lower rate spring sets by a few extra pounds of rear spring rate does not have any significance once we get into the spring range covered by the Ohlins kit. You will set whatever rear height you want with the Ohlins.

2. You can use a helper spring, most have not found it necessary.

3. Yes, higher spring rates in our RACE version of the Ohlins will mean rougher ride. Whether it is uncomfortable for you is a very subjective determination that only you can make.

4. For the sways, we have just the info on sizes that you see on the website....Racing Beat doesn't break it down into the percentages that Hotchkis does (and when asked, our friends at Racing Beat were very dubious about the Hotchkis calculations). As to whether any choice is 'too stiff', that again is hard to say. However, since it appears you will be running street tires, I doubt you need bars as still as the Hotchkis, the Racing Beat sways are my suggestion.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
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Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Cotomeus » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:29 am

Brian wrote:1. Minor weight difference of the PRHT that is compensated in lower rate spring sets by a few extra pounds of rear spring rate does not have any significance once we get into the spring range covered by the Ohlins kit. You will set whatever rear height you want with the Ohlins.

2. You can use a helper spring, most have not found it necessary.

3. Yes, higher spring rates in our RACE version of the Ohlins will mean rougher ride. Whether it is uncomfortable for you is a very subjective determination that only you can make.

4. For the sways, we have just the info on sizes that you see on the website....Racing Beat doesn't break it down into the percentages that Hotchkis does (and when asked, our friends at Racing Beat were very dubious about the Hotchkis calculations). As to whether any choice is 'too stiff', that again is hard to say. However, since it appears you will be running street tires, I doubt you need bars as still as the Hotchkis, the Racing Beat sways are my suggestion.


1. So if I get you correctly, due to the wide range covered by the Ohlins, it should be able to be fitted to both the soft-top or PRHT without concern for the weight differences in the rear?

2. There are many bumps in Singapore and thus I believe the helper spring would help a lot in street driving, can I get help to have the helper spring installed for my selection?

3. Can the higher spring rates be offset by setting the softest setting in the Ohlins? For I am very inclined to get the sports set.

4. My plans was to have a stiff spring/soft sway setting or the soft spring/hard sway setting depending on condition, hence the requirement for a adjustable setting for the sway for soft and hard setting accordingly. It does seems that the hotchkis are too stiff even at the softest setting, so the racing beat sways it will be. :)

I just wondering about the other set of coilovers, the Bilstein PSS10 which also offers a great deal of flexibility. Perhaps some views from you?

Thanks for the quick response. :)
Cotomeus
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:33 am

Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby slartibartfast » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:23 am

I bought the Cobalt set to go with my Öhlins as that was what FatCat's worksheet suggested to obtain close-to-stock front roll couple for the supplied spring rates. I'm having troubles. I apparently brake too much and get on the gas too early as the car resolutely understeers until the nose gets around a bit and then the car quickly transitions to mild oversteer. It would seem the front is too stiff. I don't mind the oversteer, it's easily controllable. The understeer though, that's got to go.

In essence I can't recomment the Cobalt sway bars with the Öhlins.
slartibartfast
 
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Location: Houston area

Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Brian » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:59 am

Cotomeus wrote:
Brian wrote:1. Minor weight difference of the PRHT that is compensated in lower rate spring sets by a few extra pounds of rear spring rate does not have any significance once we get into the spring range covered by the Ohlins kit. You will set whatever rear height you want with the Ohlins.

2. You can use a helper spring, most have not found it necessary.

3. Yes, higher spring rates in our RACE version of the Ohlins will mean rougher ride. Whether it is uncomfortable for you is a very subjective determination that only you can make.

4. For the sways, we have just the info on sizes that you see on the website....Racing Beat doesn't break it down into the percentages that Hotchkis does (and when asked, our friends at Racing Beat were very dubious about the Hotchkis calculations). As to whether any choice is 'too stiff', that again is hard to say. However, since it appears you will be running street tires, I doubt you need bars as still as the Hotchkis, the Racing Beat sways are my suggestion.


1. So if I get you correctly, due to the wide range covered by the Ohlins, it should be able to be fitted to both the soft-top or PRHT without concern for the weight differences in the rear?

2. There are many bumps in Singapore and thus I believe the helper spring would help a lot in street driving, can I get help to have the helper spring installed for my selection?

3. Can the higher spring rates be offset by setting the softest setting in the Ohlins? For I am very inclined to get the sports set.

4. My plans was to have a stiff spring/soft sway setting or the soft spring/hard sway setting depending on condition, hence the requirement for a adjustable setting for the sway for soft and hard setting accordingly. It does seems that the hotchkis are too stiff even at the softest setting, so the racing beat sways it will be. :)

I just wondering about the other set of coilovers, the Bilstein PSS10 which also offers a great deal of flexibility. Perhaps some views from you?

Thanks for the quick response. :)


That's right, Eibach adds a few pounds of spring rate to the rear of their PRHT kit....but in the Ohlins kit you are going about double that rate. At that point, a few pounds is not very significant.

If your roads are pretty rough, stay with the standard Ohlins kit...which will mean no need for helper springs. The Bilstein PSS10 is another great selection. They are not as light as the Ohlins, but very good for the money.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Brian » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:36 pm

slartibartfast wrote:I bought the Cobalt set to go with my Öhlins as that was what FatCat's worksheet suggested to obtain close-to-stock front roll couple for the supplied spring rates. I'm having troubles. I apparently brake too much and get on the gas too early as the car resolutely understeers until the nose gets around a bit and then the car quickly transitions to mild oversteer. It would seem the front is too stiff. I don't mind the oversteer, it's easily controllable. The understeer though, that's got to go.

In essence I can't recomment the Cobalt sway bars with the Öhlins.


Are you running the bumpstops that came with the Ohlins? How low are you?
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10119
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Cotomeus » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:10 am

Hi Brian,

I have placed my orders for the ohlins and racing beat sway bars with endlinks front and rear.

I figure I can have the ohlin revalved to a higher spring rate if I ever were to want to raise the bar a little,
and to get the swift springs from you -fingers crossed that they will be for sale then- :)

Just a few questions though, what other parts do I need to get besides the aluminium top, the screws and washers, which was in your installation thread. Do I need to get bump stops too? Trying to get everything ready so that installation can be done without delay!

Cheers and thanks for the response
Cotomeus
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:33 am

Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Cotomeus » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:32 am

I have sent an e-mail with regards to my order. Can you help to take a look and assist me pls?

Cheers

Vincent
Cotomeus
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:33 am

Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby slartibartfast » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:59 am

Brian wrote:Are you running the bumpstops that came with the Ohlins? How low are you?

Yes, Öhlins bump stops. I'm only about an inch-and-a-half lower. About where Mazda would have put the car if they'd had their druthers. The car is primarily street-driven so I want ground clearance.
slartibartfast
 
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Location: Houston area

Re: Ohlin and swaybar selection recommendations please

Postby Brian » Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:01 am

Cotomeus wrote:Hi Brian,

I have placed my orders for the ohlins and racing beat sway bars with endlinks front and rear.

I figure I can have the ohlin revalved to a higher spring rate if I ever were to want to raise the bar a little,
and to get the swift springs from you -fingers crossed that they will be for sale then- :)

Just a few questions though, what other parts do I need to get besides the aluminium top, the screws and washers, which was in your installation thread. Do I need to get bump stops too? Trying to get everything ready so that installation can be done without delay!

Cheers and thanks for the response


For the standard Ohlins kit everything you need comes in the box....you will use again your factory rear aluminum top hats, and the Ohlins include bumpstops, etc.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 10119
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

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