NC roll bar w/PRHT

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NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby garfull » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:38 pm

Brian,

I have an NC with the power retractable hardtop. Is there a roll bar that will work with the hardtop and still allow me to pass the "broom stick" test with the factory seat.

I have not been approved to race at NCRC (norcal racing club) because I will not pass the "broom test". Nor NASA norcal because the oem roll hoops are not classified for roll protection.

What are others with NC prht using to race at HPDE track days. I'm not trying to race competitively wheel-wheel, I just want to do some entry level track days.
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Brian » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:55 pm

Sorry, I can't imagine anybody over about 5'7 in height passing the broomstick test with any possible configuration of fixed bar in the PRHT. See our harddog PRHT choice which is about as good as you get in something fixed that still works with the top. I suppose an extension could be made that bolted in just for track days (top would not function with it in the car, etc).
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Chris Thompson » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:01 pm

garfull wrote:What are others with NC prht using to race at HPDE track days. I'm not trying to race competitively wheel-wheel, I just want to do some entry level track days.

Since you don't "race" at "track day" I imagine most organizers would let you run with the hardtop up. Ask them in advance and get the full name and title of the person who granted you permission to participate. Track days are generally pretty mellow and a non-contact sport. Some promoters make you tech yourself. Probably saves them from the liability of saying your car is OK to be on a racetrack. With your top up and minding your own business, it's pretty likely no one would say anything to you anyway.

Not that it really matters to this discussion but the broomstick rule does not apply to cars with hardtops in place. Look at spec miata. They can't pass that test and still use hardtops although they are required to bolt their hardtops on.

Good luck and have fun!
'99 Base Sport with bolt-on hardtop and '08 PRHT GT. I love them both. SCCA, PCA, BMW San Diego region #105
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Va MX5 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:56 pm

Folks,
Chris makes several good points in his post about HPDE Tracking MX-5 PRHT's. These are great little cars, but the choice we have made by selecting the PRHT is limiting with regard to HPDE events. While it is ture some organizers / promoters allow PRHT's, it varies and sometimes even at the same track. For example, Summit Point/BSR allows this model to run with the top up, however the North American Audi Club running at the same track does not, regardless of the top up status. Additionally, you may encounter some problems meeting tech requirements at high speed autocrosses and / or time trials. It all just depends who is running / holding the event. PRHT's do not meet SCCA or NASA Tech Requirements for wheel to wheel racing, without major modifications that would most likely require the removal of the roof system and the addition of a full roll cage. So the short of it is you need to check with the organizers, before signing up for the event. We made our choice and have to live with it, this is not something that can be solved by making a purchase from Goodwin Racing, or I would have bought it already! I have run my car in advanced/solo class at HPDE events and it was fun! But I could also see some instuctors refusing to ride along in a stock PRHT, regardless of the organizer's Tech allowances, because there are risks involved. Good luck and enjoy your car where you can ! Regards to all.
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Chris Thompson » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:17 pm

Well said, Pat. In regard to decent protection, I have asked a couple highly respected cage builders if they would make me something simple yet reasonably effective. No takers so far. One of them, Moti, said "I would need to bend time and space to make something safe for the PRHT". Funny huh? Hopefully this summer I'll try fabricating something. I want AWR style double hoops like Brian sells for ragtop NC's like this: http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Pe ... -0163.html I think it can be done. At least I should be able to improve on stock. Brian says "not likely", right Brian?
'99 Base Sport with bolt-on hardtop and '08 PRHT GT. I love them both. SCCA, PCA, BMW San Diego region #105
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Freescopesdad » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:05 am

I used to track my 1999 Miata and my 2007 S2000 extensively in Northern California. Both had aftermarket rollover protection. When I bought my 2012 PRHT in January 2012 I had already decided not to track it. I was also oblivious to the lack of aftermarket solutions for this car. Then the bug hit once again. I signed up for Miatas At Mazda Raceway at the end of this month (cannot go but for family reasons) and started looking at rollbars. I quickly realized that the design of the PRHT, as well engineered as it is, prevented me from installing a bar that would allow me to pass the broomstick test. The Hard Dog bar, strurdy as it is, extends no higher than the plastic covering of the stock hoops. One person on the Miata Forum, back in New Jersey, had a custom bar installed at great expense ($20K or more) and the shop that did it was (is) not willing to duplicate it for others - apparently at any price. I started asking other fabricators and they all said the same thing. I even considered Brian's passing suggestion, something to bolt to the top of the Hard Dog bar, however all the feedback I received on that solution was negative, as it would require testing ($$) to prove its mettle in a rollover.

Selling my car or trading for a soft top MX-5 is not an answer either, as I would take a financial hit. So my remaining path seems to be to buy a nice used 95-00 Miata for track days and keep the PRHT for other occasions. I probably should have kept the 99 lol.
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Chris Thompson » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:01 am

Freescopesdad wrote:I probably should have kept the 99 lol.
That's one of the (many) reasons why I still have my beloved '99.
'99 Base Sport with bolt-on hardtop and '08 PRHT GT. I love them both. SCCA, PCA, BMW San Diego region #105
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Va MX5 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:28 am

Chris,
I agree with the AWR style being the best direction and I wouldn't object to some cross bracing along the Hard Dog style. The NJ project is at the link as follows: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=423593 .I think the lower braces behind the seat could have been curved. The upper loops are dog legged, may be useful design consideration. What I really like about Brian's AWR design is the clean finish using the stock interior panels with the provided fiberglass caps and his set up is upper harness ready. Forgetting Tech requirements, I would still like to upgrade to something better than stock and / or what is currently available, even if it can't solve the track requirement problem. At the end of the day, we just are dealing with a case of limited potential demand, where self help may be the only option ( custom made). Kind regards to all. :)
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby JamesK383 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:28 pm

What I want is something i can fit in my trunk and install at the track, and take off before coming home.

Pipe dream, possibly, but then if some weather occurs then i can react to it and also if i am spending the night at track adjacent motel i can close and lock my car over night.
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby NaregM677 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:34 pm

JamesK383 wrote:What I want is something i can fit in my trunk and install at the track, and take off before coming home.


Does this option exist somewhere? I'd really like a decent bar that is higher than my head (which is higher than my seat, even without my helmet). Even if its pretty, is there a functional roll bar that can be installed once at the top is down and removed and placed in the trunk when the top needs to come up?
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby JamesK383 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:24 pm

Not yet.

Only thing thing I know we can do is drop our seats. which isn't a simple solution either
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby jboemler » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:16 pm

NaregM677 wrote: is there a functional roll bar that can be installed once at the top is down and removed and placed in the trunk when the top needs to come up?

Have you looked at the size of the roll bar compared to the size of the trunk? :roll:
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby NaregM677 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:40 am

It doesn't necessarily have to be in the trunk or in MY trunk. I'll probably be investing in a small hitch soon so the question can be rephrased to "something I can put in the trailer, get to the track, and install".
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby DavidP020 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:08 am

The roll bar can be in 2 parts, so it will fit in the trunk.

If an extension for the "Hard Dog M3 PRHT" rollbar would be available, I would be very happy!

I could install the extension for track day events, and the other days I would use the standard
"Hard Dog M3 PRHT" roll bar.
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Re: NC roll bar w/PRHT

Postby Freescopesdad » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:25 am

I had asked the same question of Hard Dog a year ago. Tom indicated at that time that he wasn't interested in investing any engineering into something that likely would not pass muster of all the different sanctioning bodies and clubs, and would likely not sell in enough numbers to make it pay. Good luck.
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