PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby skeeler » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:43 pm

Sounds like it's time to convince Emilio that there's a market for 17x10 4-lug wheels.

Come to think of it, there's probably a bigger market for 17x7 for C Street racers and street drivers. Offset could be stock - 7 mm, so 38 mm.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:25 am

skeeler wrote:Sounds like it's time to convince Emilio that there's a market for 17x10 4-lug wheels.

Come to think of it, there's probably a bigger market for 17x7 for C Street racers and street drivers. Offset could be stock - 7 mm, so 38 mm.


I have taken a run at that a few times already, polite response was accurate: market too small currently.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Chuck H » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:19 am

I could see him not wanting to do a whole new design just for an ND 17x10 wheel, but assuming that the hole pattern is drilled after the flow forming steps, it seems like he could just have some NC 17x10 wheel blanks drilled with the 4x100 pattern rather than the 5x114.3. The wheel would be slightly heavier than absolutely necessary for the ND application, but it seems like a cheaper way to satisfy a niche market than doing a whole new wheel design.

But like Brian said, all you can do is keep asking and hope the perceived market is big enough to justify the up-front costs.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:12 pm

The issue with the 6UL in 5 lug includes both the weight...and the 52mm offset. We will need a 20mm spacer anyway, might as well make that a conversion spacer that goes 4 lug to 5 lug and we can just use the 17x10 with 255/35 tires that I already own for supercharged NC. Thus, at least for testing purposes this is likely what we do for now...
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:30 pm

Yet ANOTHER candidate for oil cooling solutions that work with normally aspirated, Turbo and Supercharged NDs.

Shown here installed with some brackets we made quick today in attempt to get car ready for track day this weekend... in black finish ABOVE the A/C condensor. This long slot shaped spot works....with both supercharger and turbo kit intercooler/heat exchangers. Bar and plate design is highly efficient, with min pressure drop. Custom made to the long and narrow but deep spot. Testing today on FULL throttle loop it worked better than any other setup we have tried with the turbo. Finally feel we are getting close...a setup that fits all ND configurations and works for 11.5 PSi turbo.
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OilQuest1.jpg
OilQuest1.jpg (16.05 KiB)
OilQuest.jpg
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:09 pm

It is helpful to look at what FIAT did to the ND front end to get sufficient airflow/cooling of little 1.4 liter turbo motor in this same ND chassis. Upper half of ND Grille is blocked, not real, only bottom half is open. In contrast, Fiat has two functional grilles instead of one, each one is about equal to the single grille opening of the ND. And note how Fiat did extensive baffles that direct and compress all that air through the coolers. The taller Fiat nose allows lower grille to be dedicated to the Intercooler....and upper grille that is again as big as single air inlet on ND and yet dedicated to Radiator cooling. Fiat's taller and more blunt nose, a redesign of the ND front end, results in efficient turbo motor cooling, efficient dedicated intercooler cooling, all quite impressive....and as boosted ND drivers we are a little jealous!

FiataMiata4.jpg
FiataMiata4.jpg (84.74 KiB)

FiatIntercooler.jpg
FiatIntercooler.jpg (57.38 KiB)


More and more convinced that FAST BOOSTED ND track guys will need grille chop...or our new Carbon Miata grille upgrade to get enough air.... to go faster than the fastest normally aspirated ND guys....or you need a monster size oil cooler with turbo. To explain that another way, if you cruise the track with laps no faster than then best normally aspirated track ND drivers then you won't need a lot more cooling, our upgraded radiators and perhaps a Mishimoto oil cooler likely enough for you. But if you are able to use the power with sufficient suspension and brakes to go significantly faster than the best normally aspirated ND drivers then you are going to make the sort of heat load that really needs more air and significantly more cooling than Mazda planned with their minimalist ND grille opening. By the way....Fiat 124 comes with radiator that is at least twice as thick as ND radiator and has heat exchanger to dump oil heat into the coolant.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby jboemler » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:42 pm

Would the 124 radiator be a direct replacement in the ND?
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:15 pm

jboemler wrote:Would the 124 radiator be a direct replacement in the ND?


Nope, layout is different. Taller Fiat nose...meant it got taller rad.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:29 pm

Yet another OIL COOLER arrangement. Still trying to find a setup that works with small stock grille area, this one is a monster thick core but early testing shows the sort of heat rejection rates we want for track turbo use.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:56 pm

Autocross Practice Test and Tune Day. After the car was tough to drive at last event we made some updates. With more power and not enough tire we needed more roll resistance to tame the beast a bit, bumping spring rates to 11kg front, 6kg rear. I need to learn the setup and 10 practice runs today helped.

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