Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Miata Parts, Intakes, Superchargers, Headers, Exhausts, Shocks, Springs, Sway Bars, Brake Kits, Autocross and track mods.
grippy
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:04 am
Location: MA

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by grippy »

I would like to see a better option for a brake kit. I have run the 6 pot Wilwood setup with both stock and RX-8 rears and neither felt quite right balance wise. Also better clearance to the 17 x 9 RPF1 without the spacer would be nice. If it fit with stock 16's all the better as that is what I use for street use. I need to keep a functional E-brake but hate the extra caliper in the Wilwood set.
Awhile back I looked at the Mazda 5 rear caliper and rotor but couldn't figure out a bracket to make it work with the MX-5 uprights. Still has the aluminum caliper with E-brake and a larger solid rotor for more torque but not the weight gain of a vented rotor. Make a 2 piece rotor with the hat you already make.
The 6 pots have great performance and feel, but the clearance and special placement of wheel weights was a PITA. If they had offset the bracket a few more mm's all that would go away I think.

I would also like to see how far you can go with the 2.5 and remain emissions legal in MA (or CA).
Gordon Andrade
06 Miata
COMSCC #10 SC
Brian
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

On brakes, we have debated it here. I love the Wilwood Front and Rear 12.88, balance is PERFECT if you do as wilwood intended and run both front and rear. Gordon if you have not run the combo then I am not surprised you are chasing balance, unlike the ND the NC does not have good built in bias control, but we have run the 12.88 combo on two cars here and the balance is perfect when you run the combo. My bet is your rear rotor temps are going through big spikes because just not enough thermal capacity at the rear, that's the issue we had with RX8 rear on NC LIGHT, though RX8 rear 11.9 vented seems plenty big, without venting it just was not enough thermal capacity. Add some temp stickers and check the temps, and/or try to get more air on it.

And the dedicated parking brake caliper you hate actually works (unlike EVERY compromised parking brake setup we have seen in every other kit including what has been done on NA, NB, ND). You hate it because of the added weight, cost, complexity? If so, I get that, BUT it actually works for a dual use car better than any other parking brake solution we have tried after the stock unit is removed. I wish we had the same compromise for ND.

The only issue I see with the Wilwood front and rear 12.88 combo is price around 3k for the combo doesn't fit the budget build. We developed that kit combo on Project Blue, which was a premium 2.5 dual street/autocross/track build with built motor, the Ohlins, all the goodies. We are talking caliper conversion on stock size cheap rotors here with good brake ducts and lines as budget compromise, no agreement yet as we still consider the options. I know I will miss the Wilwood 12.88 front/rear at Laguna, it's just much better than anything out there and I love the ability to pass everyone under braking with total confidence.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
matthew-m
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:23 pm
Location: Santa Maria, CA

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by matthew-m »

Brian wrote:
Chuck H wrote:
Brian wrote:
Get Konig to make those nice light 16x8 wheels in 5x114.3 and I think I have my next suspension/tire/wheel setup!
Let's talk those 16x8 wheels, offset? My thought is Dekagram at 45mm offset. That's our best bet for lightest in current Konig lineup and the offset choice that fits easily for all (even stock height guys with no camber).
I'd buy a set, especially if the weight is less than 15 pounds. :D
Matthew Metoyer
2010 Grey MX-5 GT, Manual, Sport Package, Street Single w/Baffle, FCM Coilovers - "GT" setup with KBO & Ripple Reducer, 16x8 wheels, Budget Big Brakes, Goodwin Underbody Braces, Cravenspeed Shift Knob
MitchC635
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:06 pm

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by MitchC635 »

Are you thinking Stop Tech or DBA for the inexpensive stock size rotors? Your old write ups on the DBAs indicated they were well engineered with a little better cooling capacity, but your write up on the Stop Techs appear a little less enthusiastic. Are they equivalent, or are the DBAs worth the slight premium in price?
Brian
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

MitchC635 wrote:Are you thinking Stop Tech or DBA for the inexpensive stock size rotors? Your old write ups on the DBAs indicated they were well engineered with a little better cooling capacity, but your write up on the Stop Techs appear a little less enthusiastic. Are they equivalent, or are the DBAs worth the slight premium in price?
We are thinking the Stoptech rotors, inexpensive and effective, perhaps do simple caliper conversion? Indeed I was not thrilled with one variant of Stoptech brake kit but that was about the race calipers they were trying to sell into an all purpose kit and they just were not street appropriate at all in my view.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Chuck H
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 6:28 am

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Chuck H »

Brian wrote:Let's talk those 16x8 wheels, offset? My thought is Dekagram at 45mm offset. That's our best bet for lightest in current Konig lineup and the offset choice that fits easily for all (even stock height guys with no camber).
45mm offset is probably ideal for no worries about rubbing with 225/50-16 tires and still filling the wheel wells. 50mm offset, like the FD RX7 wheels would work also, but I don't think Konig makes anything else with that much offset, plus most folks want to run the lowest offset that they can without rubbing.

The cool thing is that on the Dekagram, the weight seems to go down slightly with higher offsets, so a 45mm offset 16x8 could come in right at, or just under 14.5 lbs if they don't need to reinforce the design for the 5x114.3 bolt pattern. :D

EDIT: I'd also be curious what a set of 205/50-16 RE-71Rs or R1Rs would feel like mounted on 16x8 wheels. I know it would give up ultimate grip compared to a 225/50-16, but should be really responsive (and probably harsh riding) with that much sidewall support.

Yet another EDIT: :lol: See if you can convince them to do the new wheel in both bronze and black. Black only is ok, but those dark bronze wheels look so awesome on the various shades of Mazda red.
2019 Arctic White RF GT-S
SmartTop, coilovers
Emmett70
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:55 pm

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Emmett70 »

Watching this thread close!
I have a 2006 NC1 with 100k. Motor is still running good but I do se a 2.5 in my future. It would be nice to see if there is a way to get decent rwhp out of a salvaged 2.5, however, I do realize you get what you pay for.
2006 MX5 Progress springs and sways, Koni, RPF1
MitchC635
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:06 pm

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by MitchC635 »

If you stay more street, it would be great to see dyno differences for stock 2.5 with stock exhaust; then with Roadster Sport Street header and your planned exhaust added; then with Integral 1 Cam added. Should be significant gains with each step as well as less torque drop at higher revs. Changing out to 1.8 max power header as a final step would also be interesting for those states not requiring two Cats.

Looks like a cooperative effort with Dynotronics and all the engine building time they've spent on the 2.5 could be great for both of your companies sales, and the Miata community. Appears to be enough difference in your companies' respective niches to allow teaming up without direct competition for sales.
Brian
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

TODAY did 100 miles in our Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project! Really wanted to take measure of how much Miata you can buy for $5000. I have been arguing in every forum and facebook thread for a few years that the NC is THE bargain in my view in Miata performance and this car proves the point. Yes, it is 12 years old, the first of NC gen. But the purchase price included a new top already installed, it runs perfect, it's even relatively quick once to 4000rpms in top gear. A ton of fun for just $5000, and with some bolt on bits soon a lot faster!

Tomorrow we start to play with some prototypes! First on deck, prototype Helmholtz Race Muffler! Lots of you guys been asking for years for Helmholtz mufflers, not everyone wants it up in the midpipe, not everyone will change anything beyond the muffler. Then during the week some prototype new NC sways that are less serious than our Progress Sways, lower rate and lower planned retail too. Lots of fun for this project ahead, keep letting us know your feedback.
Attachments
ProjectNCCoast.jpg
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

So, we have our five thousand dollar Miata. Drove it a ton yesterday, even on date night with the wife last night to Dinner with friends, super impressed with how much Miata we got for 5k, the early NC is an amazing amount of fun for the money! Now the next challenge is can we get this totally stock 5k NC Miata to TOP TIME OF DAY at a local event with just 5K in parts?

Here is the starting thoughts on the parts list:

2.5 Motor New? Quickly obvious a new motor kills the idea of getting the build done for 5k, but a used motor is just a few hundred bucks from local yards. Starting thoughts on rest of the build list is below:

Hypergram 17x9. Effective, light, great price.
MotoEast E85 Tune
Progress Sways. Super effective for the money though we will develop RoadsterSport Sways on this car which will have lower rates and lower costs.
RoadsterSport Race Springs (to be developed on this car) 400 lb/275 rates.
KONI SPORT shocks.
Bumpstops
RoadsterSport Competition Motor Mounts (keeps 2.5 from destroying transmission fast with too much twist).
Triple Pass Radiator
NC Aluminum Coolant Expansion Tank (I lost a 2.5 motor in Project Blue before we did this, cheap insurance!).
RoadsterSport MAX Power 1.8 Inch Header - Ceramic Coated (the number 1 choice in 2.5 application headers).
RoadsterSport HighFlow Stainless MX5 Miata Midpipe with HighFlow Converter (our lowest cost converter midpipe with good 2.5 inches of flow).
RoadsterSport new Helmholtz Muffler (to be developed on this project), price goal not known yet.
Offset Bushings (much more ideal camber numbers).
SuperPro Differential Center Support Bushing Kit - 70 Durometer
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
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