PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

Miata Parts, Intakes, Superchargers, Headers, Exhausts, Shocks, Springs, Sway Bars, Brake Kits, Autocross and track mods.

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:07 pm

Did a run up Mount Palomar, repeated many of the roads that I hit earlier in the week with wife's supercharged RF. About the same power, yet such different flavors. Was our plan to get this conversion done for Super Lap Time Attack this week, was not quite finished and our ND missed the event (Ryan Passey reports his V6 conversion broke below the elusive 1:50 lap mark at Buttonwillow which Miatas had never done before, he did 1:48 on street tires, which is seriously getting on with the program). With our ND missing the event we took off the serious track rear wing and front splitter for more street testing and likely run this car for BMW Autocross this weekend. Eventually came to suspect a weak coil, swapped the ignition coils and our issues seem to be gone. Will take off the roof before that event too for more pics.

First impressions on the Turbo ND vs Supercharged ND. I still prefer the immediate delivery of our Edelbrock Supercharger kit in my wife's RF, which feels totally slave to the commands of my right foot, attached to my right foot in a way that a turbo just never does. The turbo feels more loosely connected to what my right foot is doing, there is lag, there is some 'exciting' hump of initial thrust when you play with the throttle below 4k. Above 4k things are pretty instant with the turbo response yet still not as precise feeling as the Supercharger. As for Turbo advantages, the exhaust is very quiet even with our RoadsterSport Race muffler at the back, the turbo is such an amazingly effective exhaust noise blender/resonator. Thus, the turbo configuration carries less exhaust system weight, doesn't need big muffler to control sound. Turbo power is also very smooth once spooled up, you can tell it is not driven by belt. So, turbo is deceptively quick and smooth and quiet....the supercharger is more direct and instant with much more sound (more visceral).
Attachments
NewNDBlue.jpg
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby rastap » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:16 pm

If one is just going to use the Edelbrock Supercharger only on the street, is it necessary to upgrade the radiator?
rastap
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:54 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:58 pm

rastap wrote:If one is just going to use the Edelbrock Supercharger only on the street, is it necessary to upgrade the radiator?



See the RF thread with my wife's street use Edelbrock Supercharger install...all stock cooling system and several road trips through the Summer heat and no issues. Thus, street use seems to need no upgrades.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby awales74 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:04 pm

What vents are those? How do you determine their location?
awales74
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:03 am

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:12 pm

awales74 wrote:What vents are those? How do you determine their location?


Our Singluar hood vents, on the site soon. You want them in low pressure location so air is sucked out them. We also try to work with the lines of the car so it looks good too.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:57 pm

Fun first competition day with the AVO Turbo ND...it took the class by storm with two drivers (Sean and I) trading best times through the day. More download later, four hours of sleep and exhausted, will post the pics for now.
Attachments
TurboND.jpg
NDTurbo3.jpg
NDTurbo2.jpg
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:38 pm

More on Autocross yesterday. Turbos and Autocross have always been an interesting mix, fun and challenging. With a supercharged autocross Miata like our 2007 I like to throttle steer through the course, around cones, precision use of every inch of the course is possible and rotation around features with all the extra power is an easy flick of the throttle. It is very different with the turbo.... dial up the power and then focus more on just roughly hitting my apex marks and otherwise keeping it somewhere between each side of the course. Placing it inches to the cones while trying to summon full TURBO power carries far more risks of stepping rear out and slapping that cone beside you. And so it was yesterday that Sean and I both did our best times in morning practice, in afternoon competition we both did our best times in our first 'warm up' run, and we both seriously slapped some cones during our subsequent runs. Great fun, perhaps even more fun to race than the supercharger, but also a lot more like a shotgun than a sniper riffle. With the supercharger in the car for the last event my challenge was just figuring best use of the power curve, control and placement of the car within the confines of the cones was not a challenge. But hey, at the end of the day our newly TURBO ND was fastest Miata by several seconds, beat all the BMWs too at this BMW CLUB Autocross event.

Now time to applaud the San Diego BMW CLUB. If within reach of San Diego, my TOP pick for Autocross big fun is the BMW Club. Their course designs are a mix of traditional autocross and full on race track. Yesterday included a double U turn that was so tight you had to get down to almost walking pace, but you were then rewarded with expanding radius full acceleration through two gears long downhill sweeper that sent our Turbo high into third gear and the tires just trying to hold on as the speed grew....onto the next rise and slam the breaks and catch the twitching car as you enter a Slalom. Will post video soon. So much Fun, such a great course, kudos to all involved!

As for COOL BOOST, happy to report that with two drivers flogging the car back to back our radiator temps were stable even as we regularly set and reset top time. Oil was still warmer than I want, broke 230 F despite massive oil cooler. We had challenges with cooland and oil temps at Laguna and that led to cutting the grille, though we have upped our oil cooling game per the prior posts after Laguna, we have now added an oil heating boost mechanism...the turbo itself...that makes our oil cooling challenge even higher than before. As time permits will make some more additional refinements to our cooling scheme.
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Sean @ GWR » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:06 pm

At the last event I got behind the wheel of our Project Race ND it had our Edelbrock Supercharger installed. Hopping in the driver's seat this time the AVO turbo kit would be force feeding the engine.

Right off the line I noticed a bigger surge in power once you hit ~3000RPM and the pull to redline was stronger than before. Very little lag was present but if you were off the power band you always had to anticipate the onset of power during the lower speed corners. On a big track this would be less of an issue and you would be in the sweet spot of the power band. However, like Brian said, no matter what you do the turbo will always be a bit more unpredictable than a supercharger and it makes hunting the apex more risky.

I knew the turbo would provide excellent sound suppression but I was still surprised just how quiet our RoadsterSport Race muffler with Max mid-pipe was. I am a big fan of quiet exhaust systems so this was music to my ears and kept my fatigue levels lower at the end of the day. The exhaust still had plenty of character snapping and popping at redline when rowing through the gears. The turbo on the other hand was very quiet and you might not realize it was turbocharged unless you were told.

The additional aero and tires also made for a FUN day at the autocross trading top time of the day with Brian until I hit a cone! Now the big question...which did I like better? At the end of the day I think it all depends on the application. For a street only car the Supercharger is the answer for me. For an all our track weapon give me the turbo and all the boost.

Sean @ GWR
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Ryan @ GWR » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:32 am

Getting requests for info about the wing we are using on the ND.

This is the APR GTC-300, with width measurements specified by us so the pedestals fit on the ND trunk lid. You can find it in our store here:

APR GTC-300 Carbon Fiber Adjustable Wing

The GTC-300 is what's referred to as a "3D wing" because the shape of the wing changes across the width of it. This design favors being placed at the rear of a typical sedan shaped car; the center section of the wing is tilted less where the air is coming from over the top of the car at a downward angle, and the outer sections of the wing are tilted more where the air is coming around the side of the car at a more horizontal direction.

300a_pressure.gif
300a_pressure.gif (13.29 KiB)


Data below from APR. AOA refers to Angle of Attack (the angle of the wing). The below CFD tests were done in a "free stream" which means that the airflow was linear across the whole width of the wing. This means these numbers aren't entirely representative of the downforce/drag values you will get in the real world with this wing mounted behind the roofline of a car, but the data still helps to give an idea of the forces that the wing can generate. At an educated guess, I would expect that the values from the test below would all be slightly higher (more downforce) in the real world because the effective angle of the center section of the wing as it relates to the direction of airflow coming down over the roof of the car is greater than is shown in a free-stream test.

GTC300_table.gif
GTC300_table.gif (76.79 KiB)


Note that the forces are presented in Newtons. 1 Newton = 0.225 pound-force. So, with the wing set at the most conservative 0° angle, at just 80mph we already have 150 lbs of downforce. At a more aggressive angle of 10° at 120mph we have 450 lbs of downforce. Keep in mind these are free-stream numbers, so it's very likely we are seeing more downforce than this in the real world on the back of a car.
Ryan @ GWR
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:37 pm

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:12 am

Working on the turbo. Figuring out gauge setup for our three AEM gauges, AFR, Boost Controller, Oil Temp. Testing Map with higher boost levels using the boost controller. Back to the dyno soon. Progress is being made, it spun the tires in 2nd gear yesterday during data collection, Rival 245/40 laying long black lines from about 25mph is fun!
Attachments
G3.jpg
BoostControl.jpg
G1.png
Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing
www.good-win-racing.com
Brian
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8453
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:44 am
Location: San Diego CA

PreviousNext

Return to Mazda Miata and Fiat 124

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests