PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DYNO

Miata Parts, Intakes, Superchargers, Headers, Exhausts, Shocks, Springs, Sway Bars, Brake Kits, Autocross and track mods.

Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:50 am

ryanholt wrote:Brian, any movement on the development of these "scoops"?

Brian wrote:Transmission cooling air scoop...for track users!

Tested with our turbo ND.

Coming to the site soon. Similar for diff also coming to site soon.


I think production trans scoops have arrived and are waiting pics and time for somebody to get them on the site, likely later next week.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:35 am

ryanholt wrote:Brian, any movement on the development of these "scoops"?

Brian wrote:Transmission cooling air scoop...for track users!

Tested with our turbo ND.

Coming to the site soon. Similar for diff also coming to site soon.



On the site now at THIS LINK.
Attachments
Scoop.jpg
Scoop.jpg (18.11 KiB)
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:43 pm

Side by Side ND1 V4 and ND2 transmissions. Casting appears the same in all regards....but there is at least one difference.

Appears the front cover is different – housing that the throw out bearing rides on – specifically the fork pivot. Pin is the same but housing changes the depth due to the dual mass flywheel on the 2019 models. Swap that with pre-2019 type to install into ND1.
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t4.jpeg
t3.jpeg
T2.jpeg
T1.jpeg
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby sjd » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:19 am

So with the transmission cases (and the gearsets) still being the same (except for the differences you pointed out) does that mean that Mazda feels the stronger engine block of the 2019 is enough to stop the failures? What versions of the transmission have you broken? Have there been failures of the version 4? If the issue is the lack of stiffness in the 2016-18 engine block would that account for repeat failures even on the updated gearsets?

I'm ready to make the jump to a 2019 but since I am an avid autocrosser the transmission concern is worrying. Of course since I'm waiting for next Spring here in the East, I do have some time to observe what happens when people start autocrossing/tracking the 2019.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:04 am

sjd wrote:So with the transmission cases (and the gearsets) still being the same (except for the differences you pointed out) does that mean that Mazda feels the stronger engine block of the 2019 is enough to stop the failures? What versions of the transmission have you broken? Have there been failures of the version 4? If the issue is the lack of stiffness in the 2016-18 engine block would that account for repeat failures even on the updated gearsets?

I'm ready to make the jump to a 2019 but since I am an avid autocrosser the transmission concern is worrying. Of course since I'm waiting for next Spring here in the East, I do have some time to observe what happens when people start autocrossing/tracking the 2019.


See the thread at Miata.net for input from many more users. I broke a version 1 and 3. I don't know if anyone has busted a version 4 yet though lots of discussion of that in the thread at Miata.net. Note the torque difference between ND1 and ND2 motors is close to zero, and it's torque that matters when it comes to breaking stuff, so cannot say ND2 motor 'upgrades' are relevant to the discussion on breaking transmissions (and then add in that with boost I was running as much as double stock torque and it cannot be said that my busting a version 3 with boost tells you much about autocrossing CS or STR class power on a version 4). My pet theory is twist is the issue, have not seen an ND2 on the lift yet so don't know precisely what as been improved on that.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby LateNights » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:53 am

Would you ever consider adapting the NC / Fiat trans to the ND, or is it not as simple as one might hope?

(Who'd have thought the Fiat to be the more reliable twin :mrgreen: )
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby NathanD277 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:10 am

Brian, do you know the cut off dates for the different versions of the transmission and what things were improved? Trying to find info over on that Miata.net thread is almost impossible. I just traded in my 2016 for a leftover new 2017 Club with a 3/27/17 build date. Curious what version of the transmission it has.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:30 am

LateNights wrote:Would you ever consider adapting the NC / Fiat trans to the ND, or is it not as simple as one might hope?

(Who'd have thought the Fiat to be the more reliable twin :mrgreen: )



Not simple, different bell housing, so much custom that you might as well put in BMW trans that can handle 500 hp (like the K Miata guys do).
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:32 am

NathanD277 wrote:Brian, do you know the cut off dates for the different versions of the transmission and what things were improved? Trying to find info over on that Miata.net thread is almost impossible. I just traded in my 2016 for a leftover new 2017 Club with a 3/27/17 build date. Curious what version of the transmission it has.



Version 3: INSTALLED FROM April 3rd, 2017 VEHICLE PRODUCTION LINE.
SECOND GEAR, M601-17-251A, used from April 3rd, 2017 Production.
COUNTERSHAFT GEAR (A.K.A CLUSTER GEAR), M601-17-301D, used from April 3rd, 2017.


Version 4: INSTALLED FROM November 1st, 2017 VEHICLE PRODUCTION LINE.
CLUTCH HUB SET 1ST AND 2ND GEAR, M601-17-260A, used from November 1st, 2017.
SLEEVE CLUTCH HUB SET 1ST AND 2ND GEAR, M601-17-262A, used from November 1st 2017
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby NathanD277 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:02 am

I can’t believe I missed getting a V3 by a week! Well, V2 is better than V1, which is what my 2016 had.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Freescopesdad » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:27 am

Brian, considering twist as an issue, has there been any more development on ND motor mounts? would that even be a way to mitigate the effects on the transmission?
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:19 am

Our ND2....fresh off the truck, at the dealer.

We pick it up late Saturday.

The next adventure begins!

Got a Club this time.
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ND2.jpg
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:19 am

Freescopesdad wrote:Brian, considering twist as an issue, has there been any more development on ND motor mounts? would that even be a way to mitigate the effects on the transmission?


I have to check with Ryan, cannot recall where we left off on that, our Supercharged Blue ND has the prototype upgraded mounts on it still.
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby NathanD277 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:43 am

Yesssss! Can’t wait to see what y’all do with the ND2!
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Re: PROJECT ND: Parts Development, Testing, Measurements, DY

Postby Brian » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:09 pm

ND2 in the house!

Time to wrench!

Club Soft Top, because we race and it will go racing. SCCA has not classed it for next season in ST, confirmed only that it will go to CS. So, likely we start with just mods for CS and see how it goes.

First impressions: It's a boring stock ND. I was expecting from all the journalist hype that it would feel like a tuned ND1, but it does not, at least below the new extended rpm limit. A tuned ND, such as for SCCA STR class, has a much more aggressive timing curve that pumps up the midrange torque and makes it leap off the line at mid rpms in a way this ND2 does not. In a way this is good news, tells me the power is coming from better breathing in and out of the motor (bigger throttle body, new manifold, smoother entrance/exits from head, etc), rather than advanced timing curve. Have not finished break in mileage, perhaps feel a little different about the changes when we explore above 7000 rpms after a few more hundred miles, but at 4000/5000 rpms it does not match a well tuned ND1 for grunt. Once Tuners get access to the ECU it will be a whole new story.

I was expecting a little more exhaust note because ND2 stock muffler is a little different, but exhaust note is still nonexistent in most driving, near dead silent, really no sports car flavor at all for the ears. Thanks for that Mazda, we are still going to sell a ton of mufflers to those wanting to add some fun here. ND2 still floppy in the turns too. Dual mass flywheel has a little different feel indeed, need more time with that feature to say if I like it or not, but it is smooth. Drove my wife's supercharged RF the 30 miles or so to the dealership to get the new ND2, by comparison my wife's RF with supercharger and mild suspension upgrades is about 10 times more fun to drive at this point. Fortunately, we can fix that.

Going to check fit on a few things and then send it to our guy that does our total clear bra treatments. We always clear bra entire front, really helps preserve the finish.
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