Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Miata Parts, Intakes, Superchargers, Headers, Exhausts, Shocks, Springs, Sway Bars, Brake Kits, Autocross and track mods.
Chuck H
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Chuck H »

Brian wrote:Similar thoughts here Chuck. Team has decided to look at doing a MaxMidpipe for NC much like we have for ND, 5 inch body converter is 60 percent more flow than all the current 4 inch efforts, and biggest Magnaflow non-fiberglass resonator we can stuff in the space and match that with at least one new muffler that has the Helmholtz at the rear. Center exit is a small niche we likely will avoid, despite fact I like the look, just too small a niche when batch size for us is usually at least 100.
If you're going to focus one one Helmholtz muffler model for the NC, I'd guess that something pretty much exactly like the ND SuperStreet twin tip would have the broadest appeal with its sound-control options. Plus twin tips look cool anyway! :D
2019 Arctic White RF GT-S
SmartTop, coilovers
Chuck H
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Chuck H »

Brian wrote:YES! The Team here agrees 100% with you. I keep trying to sneak the Ohlins back into the project and Ryan and the rest of the crew keep telling me all the same thing, it's a BUDGET BUILD. With that in mind what we have done so far is reach out to friends at Progress about building us a proto set of RoadsterSport Springs for NC. Rather like our ND RoadsterSport springs these would be MUCH higher rate, something that can do street/track/autocross and only cost a bit over $200 for a full set of four springs. Rates? Add your thoughts on rates folks! My starting idea is 400 pound front and 275 pound rear, about the max that will neatly match to KONI SPORT shocks.
You're killing me here! :lol:

After several years of changing my mind every few weeks, I finally was pretty much sold on MeisterR CRDs for my next suspension upgrade. But regular springs in 400/275 rates and Konis is a great alternative that should give the same performance with better service life between re-builds.

Get Konig to make those nice light 16x8 wheels in 5x114.3 and I think I have my next suspension/tire/wheel setup!
2019 Arctic White RF GT-S
SmartTop, coilovers
427danderson
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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:06 pm

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by 427danderson »

Brian wrote: ...We have been looking at trying to get a TVS1320 under the hood, done some initial CAD work....

Did someone say new BIGGER blower for my NC???
Last edited by 427danderson on Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
427danderson
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by 427danderson »

Brian wrote:
LateNights wrote:I know its been done, but I'm sure a new forced induction kit would interest people - maybe something similar to the Toyota ITB set-up folks were adapting to the Na/Nb - i.e use readily available parts so it can't be taken off the market, if that's possible?

Or you could just do an ITB set-up :)

Or nitrous :D

Actually, one other thing that I found interesting was the different coatings that can be applied to different parts of the engine - if you're thinking of a rebuild / refresh...

We have been looking at trying to get a TVS1320 under the hood, done some initial CAD work. But I really just don't know if the NC market will buy blower kits that cost $5000 given that a cheap NC can be $5000 for entire car. It may just be that this market won't pay what it takes to get a TVS under the hood. I still love my MP62 kit 2007 but the last two of those kits sat on the shelf here for many months and only AFTER they finally sold did 100 NC owners suddenly tell me they were ready to buy those great extremely well sorted reliable big power capable kits.

As for ITB, that market might be 5 hardcore track users per year, niche is just too small. We did the first Cosworth Roller Throttle Body NC with our NCLIGHT project, it was all about proving to the world and the Miata community in particular that the NC had potential to be really fast. I still have a complete roller throttle body setup here and I do miss the sound and throttle resolution/response, but not practical.

I share your interest in the coatings, our friends at 949 have raved about the coatings. But this is a budget project and it seems a full motor build is getting beyond the scope of the project (we don't need to just redo the Project Blue 2.5 dual purpose car we had a few years back, though I loved that car).

I thought you were teasing me over the phone about a week ago with this mysterious TVS1320...

I'm in...Seriously in. You guys have supplied me with almost all the extra bits I have installed on my latest NC to date. Which I specifically bought instead of an ND... Boost is only a couple mods down the list for mine... I can and will immediately put up a deposit if you can promise a kit it by October next year. Pretty please just say its true!!!!

- your smiling customer :D
Brian
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

Appreciate the enthusiasm for the idea of 1320 idea on NC Guys, but understand it's really just at digital sketch stage and there are no guarantees that it gets anywhere from there. Still a ton of engineering challenges that need analysis because it is a MUCH bigger package and the MP62 was already really tight in the space. So, that's beyond this budget project but that is something which is more than mere gleam in my eye. The first question was whether it could even get under the hood in the correct orientation, we now understand it can, and next question is how it could be made with intercooler core and another 100 questions and challenges will still need answers after that.
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LateNights
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by LateNights »

Brian wrote: We have been looking at trying to get a TVS1320 under the hood, done some initial CAD work. But I really just don't know if the NC market will buy blower kits that cost $5000 given that a cheap NC can be $5000 for entire car. It may just be that this market won't pay what it takes to get a TVS under the hood. I still love my MP62 kit 2007 but the last two of those kits sat on the shelf here for many months and only AFTER they finally sold did 100 NC owners suddenly tell me they were ready to buy those great extremely well sorted reliable big power capable kits.

As for ITB, that market might be 5 hardcore track users per year, niche is just too small. We did the first Cosworth Roller Throttle Body NC with our NCLIGHT project, it was all about proving to the world and the Miata community in particular that the NC had potential to be really fast. I still have a complete roller throttle body setup here and I do miss the sound and throttle resolution/response, but not practical.

I share your interest in the coatings, our friends at 949 have raved about the coatings. But this is a budget project and it seems a full motor build is getting beyond the scope of the project (we don't need to just redo the Project Blue 2.5 dual purpose car we had a few years back, though I loved that car).
Completely understand - end of the day it really does reinforce just how viable the 2.5 swap is!

So, ignition - I know you were working on something for the 07 - would it make sense to look at something along those lines here, with a view to completing a kit for both cars?
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

VernonA420 wrote:What about some off-the-shelf coilovers that are more budget-oriented than the Ohlins? Tein Monosports, for example.
Reasonable question, but we prefer the valving of the Koni.
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

LateNights wrote:
Brian wrote: We have been looking at trying to get a TVS1320 under the hood, done some initial CAD work. But I really just don't know if the NC market will buy blower kits that cost $5000 given that a cheap NC can be $5000 for entire car. It may just be that this market won't pay what it takes to get a TVS under the hood. I still love my MP62 kit 2007 but the last two of those kits sat on the shelf here for many months and only AFTER they finally sold did 100 NC owners suddenly tell me they were ready to buy those great extremely well sorted reliable big power capable kits.

As for ITB, that market might be 5 hardcore track users per year, niche is just too small. We did the first Cosworth Roller Throttle Body NC with our NCLIGHT project, it was all about proving to the world and the Miata community in particular that the NC had potential to be really fast. I still have a complete roller throttle body setup here and I do miss the sound and throttle resolution/response, but not practical.

I share your interest in the coatings, our friends at 949 have raved about the coatings. But this is a budget project and it seems a full motor build is getting beyond the scope of the project (we don't need to just redo the Project Blue 2.5 dual purpose car we had a few years back, though I loved that car).
Completely understand - end of the day it really does reinforce just how viable the 2.5 swap is!

So, ignition - I know you were working on something for the 07 - would it make sense to look at something along those lines here, with a view to completing a kit for both cars?
I would like to finish the ignition setup.
Brian Goodwin
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Brian
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

LateNights wrote:
Brian wrote: We have been looking at trying to get a TVS1320 under the hood, done some initial CAD work. But I really just don't know if the NC market will buy blower kits that cost $5000 given that a cheap NC can be $5000 for entire car. It may just be that this market won't pay what it takes to get a TVS under the hood. I still love my MP62 kit 2007 but the last two of those kits sat on the shelf here for many months and only AFTER they finally sold did 100 NC owners suddenly tell me they were ready to buy those great extremely well sorted reliable big power capable kits.

As for ITB, that market might be 5 hardcore track users per year, niche is just too small. We did the first Cosworth Roller Throttle Body NC with our NCLIGHT project, it was all about proving to the world and the Miata community in particular that the NC had potential to be really fast. I still have a complete roller throttle body setup here and I do miss the sound and throttle resolution/response, but not practical.

I share your interest in the coatings, our friends at 949 have raved about the coatings. But this is a budget project and it seems a full motor build is getting beyond the scope of the project (we don't need to just redo the Project Blue 2.5 dual purpose car we had a few years back, though I loved that car).
Completely understand - end of the day it really does reinforce just how viable the 2.5 swap is!

So, ignition - I know you were working on something for the 07 - would it make sense to look at something along those lines here, with a view to completing a kit for both cars?
Yep, the 2.5 swap appeals to just about any budget level and that option has really undermined the market for NC forced induction more than anything else. The 2.5 swaps are relatively easy, with an option for just about any budget starting with junkyard $300 motor up through fresh new 100% stock motor up through custom built motors with upgraded pistons, rods, etc.

Part of the motivation to do this project was an experience I had a few months ago at a BMW Club Autocross day. Young guy there with beat looking NC, one fender a different color than the rest of the car, my bet was he got that NC for 2k or less. Getting past the looks, he had done discount set of coilovers and junkyard 2.5 swap and that car was the fastest car in a line of cars that cost 50k and more. The point being, the NC is a serious hot rod special, so much potential and the ease of the 2.5 swap is part of what makes it so appealing.
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Post by Brian »

Chuck H wrote:
Brian wrote:
Get Konig to make those nice light 16x8 wheels in 5x114.3 and I think I have my next suspension/tire/wheel setup!
Let's talk those 16x8 wheels, offset? My thought is Dekagram at 45mm offset. That's our best bet for lightest in current Konig lineup and the offset choice that fits easily for all (even stock height guys with no camber).
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