Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Miata Parts, Intakes, Superchargers, Headers, Exhausts, Shocks, Springs, Sway Bars, Brake Kits, Autocross and track mods.

Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby Brian » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:10 am

Updated Mod List with costs:

$458 Junkyard 2.5 from Mazda6 with 54k miles.
$99 Busted splitter from our junk bin (repaired and glued it up, shot with some black paint to 'make new' again, will sell new version soon from China for $99)
$100 Used factory limited slip out of a 2010 from salvage yard
$499 Goodwin Racing Triple-Pass 32mm Race Radiator
$1076 17x10 6UL Wheels
$229 RoadsterSport Prototype Sways
$192 RoadsterSport Endlinks
$1125 MeisterR ClubRace coilovers with 10kg/6kg
$599 RoadsterSport MAX Power 1.8 Inch Header - Ceramic Coated
$549 RoadsterSport HELMHOLTZ MX5 Miata Midpipe with Converter
$469 RoadsterSport SuperQ muffler
$219 Moroso 63779 NC Aluminum Coolant Expansion Tank
$948 Xero Limit Cams & Tune
$279 Xero Limit Intake
$199 RoadsterSport Competition Engine Mounts
$89 Whiteline offset bushings front only.
$398 RX-8 front hubs
$132 ARP wheel studs

Total Mods $7659. The original challenge was to see if we could get to top of the time sheets with 5k in mods, we certainly went over budget. Some of the items not needed right away like the hub upgrade for running 17x10 wheels for years, the stock hubs would wear out prematurely so we just dealt with that up front. We also went first class on some items where we could have saved, our lower cost standard midpipe would have saved $100, could have saved another $100 with non-ceramic coated version of our header, could have used Ford version of the MZR motor for as little as $200 from the junkyard, those without event sound limits could have used our Race muffler for half the muffler cost and saved more weight, etc.

Nonetheless, still amazing to me that an NC you can buy all day for 5k plus about 7k+ in parts can show up to 100 car event and beat everything else with doors. And we have a few customers per month buying these early NC with blown motors for about a grand, so a customer using the Ford version of the motor could duplicate this build for under 10k, including purchase of the Miata. It beat plenty of 100k machines this past weekend, plus every BMW with an 'M' on it, Porsche GT3, Corvettes, Lotus this and that, etc. It underscores our belief that the NC is really a great choice to build for speed, and the opportunity starts with ability to just about drop in the 2.5 liter MZR motor. Tires are not mods so we didn't count those or other expendables like gas that you need to get whether slow or fast or stock, etc..

The labor is 30 hours give or take, half of that is the engine swap and the more talented shadetree mechanics are duplicating these swaps at home with a buddy in a long weekend. That's really about NOTHING for labor, Ryan here at Good-Win Racing keeps a careful spreadsheet of hours in the HyperMiata Project, and that project is at about 2500 hours. That makes a budget 2.5 NC an astounding bang for the buck machine that scores very high on the fun/speed meter. Once again, Miata is always the answer!
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby Zadnak » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:11 pm

Brian wrote:On the alignment rack today. We did conservative heights for getting our 255/40 tires in there, 13.25 front, 13.50 rear. With that we got:

Front
Camber -3
Caster 6.5
Toe OUT 1/16th per side

Rear
Camber -2.5
Toe IN 1/16th per side


How are you getting that much front camber on.....nevermind, missed the Whiteline offset bushings. Yall are definitely maxed out on front camber at this point.
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby Brian » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:54 pm

Zadnak wrote:
Brian wrote:On the alignment rack today. We did conservative heights for getting our 255/40 tires in there, 13.25 front, 13.50 rear. With that we got:

Front
Camber -3
Caster 6.5
Toe OUT 1/16th per side

Rear
Camber -2.5
Toe IN 1/16th per side


How are you getting that much front camber on.....nevermind, missed the Whiteline offset bushings. Yall are definitely maxed out on front camber at this point.


The front turn-in response is wicked good!

Yep, our Whiteline offset bushings at THIS LINK.
Image
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby VernonA420 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:24 am

l just ordered a set of those Whiteline bushings from you yesterday, Brian. I'm guessing installation requires removal of the control arm from the car, and a press.
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby Brian » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:48 am

VernonA420 wrote:l just ordered a set of those Whiteline bushings from you yesterday, Brian. I'm guessing installation requires removal of the control arm from the car, and a press.


Correct!
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby vteckiller2000 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Hey Brian,
Watching the video I noticed that the car doesn't look as composed as in your other videos you have competing at that same site in your other cars. Was this maybe a set up issue? Is this the tradeoff for not having the DFV of the Ohlins like the other cars? Looks pretty bumpy and it seems to be both understeering but also be a tad loose on occasion, either way the driver mod got the job done in the end anyways!
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby Brian » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:38 pm

Yes, and Yes.

Yes, setup issue is part of it. At the very last minute I made a choice to go a notch tighter on rear sway and that was a notch too tight for the rest of the setup. Today put it back one position softer. We really had no setup time, no test and tune time, while I am amazed with the top result at FIRST event, we can tune the setup to be a bit easier to drive at the limit for next event.

Yes, lack of Ohlins DFV was part of it, the setup issue above was because I was essentially assuming the DFV we didn't have in the rest of the setup. With the DFV we can tune the balance of the car to a razor edge and it works on both smooth and rough pavement because any sharp surface issues are handled by the DFV. That secondary DFV pathway functions to absorb motion that otherwise tosses the car off line. Here we spent less than half the money we spend on the Ohlins for a single valve Meister Coilover with no DFV, yet we tuned the car as sharp as we normally do on balance with Ohlins and that was a bit of a setup mistake. Per first paragraph above we backed the balance intensity a notch softer with the rear for next time, because we don't have the DFV to save us over the rough bits of pavement. Co-driver and I both spun the car, it's a bit tricky at the limit. In the video the section with the really busted up pavement is at about 36 to 46 seconds, coming out of U turn into quick left/right/left/right transitions over a really bumpy section where DFV would have helped me stay connected better to the pavement. We tried everything we could with the shock settings to avoid the little bits of opposite steering lock through there. How much time did it cost me? Not much, over entire course a few tenths here and there, doesn't sound like a lot to many, but as you likely know so many events are often decided by less than a tenth of a second.

Thus, I really like the value in these MeisterR coilovers, particularly the ClubRace version in the car for this past weekend, and we added them to the site after the event. Those ClubRace coilovers helped us make a really fast Miata on a budget, we beat cars with well over 10 times the investment to buy and setup. But at twice the money the Ohlins would be a bit faster and bit easier to drive at the limit, allowing a perfectly balanced setup for smooth pavement that doesn't need to be compromised for rough sections. Likewise, we could have spent a lot more money on Hoosiers and gone faster than we did on Rival street tires, it's always a question of how fast you want to go and how much you want to spend to get there, for the money these cost my verdict is that these coilovers are super good value for enthusiasts on a budget and can get you top of the podium.

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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby vteckiller2000 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:25 pm

Interesting data for sure.

Are you going to be testing additional options you have on offer like the FEAL and KSport?

Would be nice to see some comparisons on setups that aren't a known quantity.
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby Brian » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:33 am

vteckiller2000 wrote:Interesting data for sure.

Are you going to be testing additional options you have on offer like the FEAL and KSport?

Would be nice to see some comparisons on setups that aren't a known quantity.



Not at this time, happy with the suspension setup, it's a blast to drive, fits the budget premise of the project perfectly, and it proved fast at first event. Going to declare mission accomplished there because we have a long list of other stuff to get finished on this car that needs our focus before any more suspension play.
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Re: Budget Street/Autocross/Track 2.5 NC Project!

Postby NWroadrunner » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:24 am

While someone's brought it up... I'd like to hear impressions about the GWR spec Feal 441 with 6/4 springs, specifically vs. the MeisterR 7/5 or 6/4 CRD. have not been able to find a single review. Only a couple about the standard, non-GWR 441 with 8/6 or 7/5 rates. Brian, when was the last time you tested the 6/4kg 441 on the NC, or got solid feedback about them from a customer?
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